5 ms·

Show me a UFO and an alien and I'll believe it. I've had enough of the podcasts, news articles and "court tv" to know the same amount (very little, nothing conc

Show me a UFO and an alien and I'll believe it. I've had enough of the podcasts, news articles and "court tv" to know the same amount (very little, nothing concrete) as I did before all of this started.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Hear hear. It's always more smoke and mirrors, claims from individuals, inconclusive, grainy images, yadda yadda. Show me some real evidence.
samstave 3y ago
I've personally seen (with a group of about ~20 others) a TR-3B in 1988 at Truckee Airport in Lake Tahoe Ca. It rose on the horizon over the mountains, way off in the distance. Then within about 2 seconds it was hovering directly above us about 100 feet up. It was huge, silent. I was marching in my Civil Air Patrol group. Our commander was a former SR-71 mechanic when it was still a top secret program. He was doing the marchine exercise and when we saw the craft we all watched it - then when it basically teleported directly above us - he very quickly ushered us back into our group hangar. I've seen others - but this was the closest I have been to one. It has shaped my reality ever since (I was 14 when it happened, and I am 48 now)
- monkeynotes 3y ago
  How did you know it was a TR-3B??
  - samstave 3y ago
    Based on all the descriptions. The TR3B wasnt a known class of things back then - but the "triangle with lights at each point" was a typical design trope talked about. This thing was huge, a triangle, was literally hovering above us. and I could see the details on the bottom. It wasnt until years later that tr3b came out as the name for the thing.
adamredwoods 3y ago
Physics does not support intelligent alien spacecraft "flying" around. The logical and simplest answer is the phenomena are terrestrial.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  Physics doesn’t make a claim one way or the other. Statistics makes the claim that aliens are more likely to exist than not.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >Statistics makes the claim that aliens are more likely to exist than not. "There exists alien somewhere in the universe" doesn't imply "there are aliens visiting us right now", though.
    - aaomidi 3y ago
      Never said it does either though.
    - gfodor 3y ago
      If you presume it’s possible to create technology that can self replicate and harm all life it reaches near some approximate of c, then depending on your beliefs about how common life is, you should expect an intervention system.
- TinyRick 3y ago
  Our understanding of physics is incomplete.
  - mindcrime 3y ago
    That is true. And it is possible, in principle, that some new revelations will come along and completely rewrite our understanding of physics, and allow for FTL travel, time travel, transport to "parallel universes" (ala Fringe), etc. But there are good reasons to not expect that, in that the places where our understanding is incomplete mostly deal with "edge" cases - extremes of scale (quantum mechanics), time (origins of the universe / big bang), gravity (insides of black holes), etc. But the physics we have today is otherwise very well tested, and makes incredibly precise and accurate predictions that match extremely well with observed phenomena. Given that, I think a strong measure of skepticism in this regard is fairly well supported. But, a good scientist should always be willing to change their position if the evidence dictates such, and new evidence can always come along. See: The Problem of Induction.
voytec 3y ago
> Show me a UFO and an alien and I'll believe it. UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object" and doesn't necessarily mean anything extraterrestrial.
- mc32 3y ago
  Right, but in this context it's heavily implied.
  - throwaway743 3y ago
    Wasn't implied, it was said straight up under oath.
pjc50 3y ago
I was into UFOs as a kid. Read a whole load of stuff from Erik von Daniken to Nick Pope. Crop circles, that kind of thing. X-Files. Some things gradually became apparent: - the smartphone era produced fewer pictures of UFOs despite everyone having a camera - crop circles kind of died out - in order for information to be suppressed, there had to be a conspiracy that was simultaneously worldwide and watertight, yet itself did not leak like, say, Cold War spies - a whole plethora of new unevidenced beliefs would sweep across the world So: Occam's razor tells us that there almost certainly aren't any UFOs. What, then do we do with the eyewitness accounts? It also becomes apparent just how unreliable these are. People can become thoroughly convinced that things happened which did not and could not have happened. People acquire all sorts of strange beliefs, sometimes to their detriment. Cults come and wait for landings that never happen, but also serious men in serious jobs have one report in their lives that directly contradicts reality. It can be a little difficult to deal with how unsatisfactorily the sausage of consensus reality is made, but it's the only alternative to wandering back into Carl Sagan's "demon-haunted world".
- TinyRick 3y ago
  > What, then do we do with the eyewitness accounts? Not only eyewitness accounts, but also recorded military footage (e.g. onboard cameras, FLIR sensors mentioned in the hearing). Are you suggesting that numerous high-ranking former military officials are lying under oath? And that the expensive, high-tech equipment recording the objects also failed in a way that showed something that wasn't actually there? That sounds much more frightening to me than the alternative explanation.
  - shawabawa3 3y ago
    When you say there is recorded military footage, is it publicly available? Or are there just witnesses that say it exists?
    - TinyRick 3y ago
      Non publicly available that I am aware of, aside from what the Navy released years ago. From what I understand, a big reason for not releasing footage is sensor data that is embedded in the images/videos that if released, would significantly help non-friendly nations to better understand some of our military capabilities.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

Hear hear. It's always more smoke and mirrors, claims from individuals, inconclusive, grainy images, yadda yadda. Show me some real evidence.

samstave 3y ago

I've personally seen (with a group of about ~20 others) a TR-3B in 1988 at Truckee Airport in Lake Tahoe Ca. It rose on the horizon over the mountains, way off in the distance. Then within about 2 seconds it was hovering directly above us about 100 feet up. It was huge, silent. I was marching in my Civil Air Patrol group. Our commander was a former SR-71 mechanic when it was still a top secret program. He was doing the marchine exercise and when we saw the craft we all watched it - then when it basically teleported directly above us - he very quickly ushered us back into our group hangar. I've seen others - but this was the closest I have been to one. It has shaped my reality ever since (I was 14 when it happened, and I am 48 now)

monkeynotes 3y ago
How did you know it was a TR-3B??
- samstave 3y ago
  Based on all the descriptions. The TR3B wasnt a known class of things back then - but the "triangle with lights at each point" was a typical design trope talked about. This thing was huge, a triangle, was literally hovering above us. and I could see the details on the bottom. It wasnt until years later that tr3b came out as the name for the thing.

adamredwoods 3y ago

Physics does not support intelligent alien spacecraft "flying" around. The logical and simplest answer is the phenomena are terrestrial.

aaomidi 3y ago
Physics doesn’t make a claim one way or the other. Statistics makes the claim that aliens are more likely to exist than not.
- gruez 3y ago
  >Statistics makes the claim that aliens are more likely to exist than not. "There exists alien somewhere in the universe" doesn't imply "there are aliens visiting us right now", though.
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    Never said it does either though.
  - gfodor 3y ago
    If you presume it’s possible to create technology that can self replicate and harm all life it reaches near some approximate of c, then depending on your beliefs about how common life is, you should expect an intervention system.
TinyRick 3y ago
Our understanding of physics is incomplete.
- mindcrime 3y ago
  That is true. And it is possible, in principle, that some new revelations will come along and completely rewrite our understanding of physics, and allow for FTL travel, time travel, transport to "parallel universes" (ala Fringe), etc. But there are good reasons to not expect that, in that the places where our understanding is incomplete mostly deal with "edge" cases - extremes of scale (quantum mechanics), time (origins of the universe / big bang), gravity (insides of black holes), etc. But the physics we have today is otherwise very well tested, and makes incredibly precise and accurate predictions that match extremely well with observed phenomena. Given that, I think a strong measure of skepticism in this regard is fairly well supported. But, a good scientist should always be willing to change their position if the evidence dictates such, and new evidence can always come along. See: The Problem of Induction.

voytec 3y ago

> Show me a UFO and an alien and I'll believe it. UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object" and doesn't necessarily mean anything extraterrestrial.

mc32 3y ago
Right, but in this context it's heavily implied.
- throwaway743 3y ago
  Wasn't implied, it was said straight up under oath.

pjc50 3y ago

I was into UFOs as a kid. Read a whole load of stuff from Erik von Daniken to Nick Pope. Crop circles, that kind of thing. X-Files. Some things gradually became apparent: - the smartphone era produced fewer pictures of UFOs despite everyone having a camera - crop circles kind of died out - in order for information to be suppressed, there had to be a conspiracy that was simultaneously worldwide and watertight, yet itself did not leak like, say, Cold War spies - a whole plethora of new unevidenced beliefs would sweep across the world So: Occam's razor tells us that there almost certainly aren't any UFOs. What, then do we do with the eyewitness accounts? It also becomes apparent just how unreliable these are. People can become thoroughly convinced that things happened which did not and could not have happened. People acquire all sorts of strange beliefs, sometimes to their detriment. Cults come and wait for landings that never happen, but also serious men in serious jobs have one report in their lives that directly contradicts reality. It can be a little difficult to deal with how unsatisfactorily the sausage of consensus reality is made, but it's the only alternative to wandering back into Carl Sagan's "demon-haunted world".

TinyRick 3y ago
> What, then do we do with the eyewitness accounts? Not only eyewitness accounts, but also recorded military footage (e.g. onboard cameras, FLIR sensors mentioned in the hearing). Are you suggesting that numerous high-ranking former military officials are lying under oath? And that the expensive, high-tech equipment recording the objects also failed in a way that showed something that wasn't actually there? That sounds much more frightening to me than the alternative explanation.
- shawabawa3 3y ago
  When you say there is recorded military footage, is it publicly available? Or are there just witnesses that say it exists?
  - TinyRick 3y ago
    Non publicly available that I am aware of, aside from what the Navy released years ago. From what I understand, a big reason for not releasing footage is sensor data that is embedded in the images/videos that if released, would significantly help non-friendly nations to better understand some of our military capabilities.