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There's a disproportionate focus on it all too I think. Cloud deployment and CI/CD and networking and all that stuff absolutely matter, and must be done right

There's a disproportionate focus on it all too I think. Cloud deployment and CI/CD and networking and all that stuff absolutely matter, and must be done right to avoid a world of pain, but often it's largely a one-time setup - and then you focus on the same old tried-and-tested coding techniques and principals to Get The App Done. For example you spend a month on the infra, then a year building, maintaining and enhancing "the app". Maybe I'm wrong but so much tech discussion here and elsewhere seems to be on the infra part, lately. But coding well, including interacting efficiently with resources such as DBs, just isn't as prominent I don't think? Maybe there's nothing to say of course. Or maybe the old microservices-vs-monoliths is exactly that...

marcosdumay 3y ago
> often it's largely a one-time setup - and then you focus on ... Get The App Done That's what success looks like. Not everybody is successful, and from how people talk about it, it looks like a lot of people have never experienced it at all.
nine_zeros 3y ago
> Cloud deployment and CI/CD and networking and all that stuff absolutely matter, and must be done right to avoid a world of pain, but often it's largely a one-time setup In my experience, this is not true. At any large company with thousands of engineers hammering the CI/CD/development thingys, a CI/CD failure is an incident unto itself. And it often requires A LOT of maintenance. And you can't just offload it to gitlab or whatver because you WILL need to build abstractions over it. What I have found particularly infuriating is large companies with billions of dollars in revenue choose to completely ignore the productivity decline that comes from poor CI/CD, and then demand faster work from engineers who are hamstrung by poor infrastructure.
- brianmcc 3y ago
  Don't get me wrong - CI/CD itself is of course a product subject to ongoing evolution and challenges such as scaling, aging, vulnerabilities, etc. But usually, I would expect that "Project ABC" will build all its infra and CI/CD usage early on and then just proceed to consume that CI/CD as a commodity service, with ad-hoc changes needed to continue playing nicely with that service. >> What I have found particularly infuriating is large companies with billions of dollars in revenue choose to completely ignore the productivity decline that comes from poor CI/CD I hear you :-(

marcosdumay 3y ago

> often it's largely a one-time setup - and then you focus on ... Get The App Done That's what success looks like. Not everybody is successful, and from how people talk about it, it looks like a lot of people have never experienced it at all.

nine_zeros 3y ago

> Cloud deployment and CI/CD and networking and all that stuff absolutely matter, and must be done right to avoid a world of pain, but often it's largely a one-time setup In my experience, this is not true. At any large company with thousands of engineers hammering the CI/CD/development thingys, a CI/CD failure is an incident unto itself. And it often requires A LOT of maintenance. And you can't just offload it to gitlab or whatver because you WILL need to build abstractions over it. What I have found particularly infuriating is large companies with billions of dollars in revenue choose to completely ignore the productivity decline that comes from poor CI/CD, and then demand faster work from engineers who are hamstrung by poor infrastructure.

brianmcc 3y ago
Don't get me wrong - CI/CD itself is of course a product subject to ongoing evolution and challenges such as scaling, aging, vulnerabilities, etc. But usually, I would expect that "Project ABC" will build all its infra and CI/CD usage early on and then just proceed to consume that CI/CD as a commodity service, with ad-hoc changes needed to continue playing nicely with that service. >> What I have found particularly infuriating is large companies with billions of dollars in revenue choose to completely ignore the productivity decline that comes from poor CI/CD I hear you :-(