4 ms·

A possibly better analogy would be if a ride-share gave you a free ride to a concert and all of your friends have used that free ride without issue but then the

by toolz 3y ago

A possibly better analogy would be if a ride-share gave you a free ride to a concert and all of your friends have used that free ride without issue but then the ride-share company forced you out of the ride halfway to the concert without warning and said "should've read the fine print not our problem!" - now you're possibly in a bad neighborhood with a dead phone battery in a much worse place than you would've been if you never trusted the free service to begin with (and I would suggests it's not hard at all to imagine a scenario with more dire consequences in this situation) If people are planning their near future based on what you've said you would likely be giving them, then at some point there is probably some inherited responsibility to at least give the user of that service a heads up so they can make other plans if possible.

barry-cotter 3y ago
> If people are planning their near future based on what you've said you would likely be giving them, then at some point there is probably some inherited responsibility to at least give the user of that service a heads up so they can make other plans if possible. If you’re not paying for it you’re not owed anything. Someone was doing you a favour at their expense and then they stopped. If you want something you can rely on pay for it.
lesuorac 3y ago
The ride analogy is not a good one because you're in a different spot from where you started. While with Netlify the person is back at exactly where they started before Netlify was hosting w/e their project was. So they're in the same neighborhood with the same battery level as they started with. The free tier is very clearly not for professional work so its really more like if your buddy said they could pick you up but they won't move a couch for you and you showed up with a couch and they just left.
- pbhjpbhj 3y ago
  >While with Netlify the person is back at exactly where they started // Hmm, moving to a free service can take a lot of time, there might be lock-in? I don't have specific experience of netlify. I stayed with my hosting provider despite them doubling my costs just because it would take a long time to find another trustable provider with the offering I need and then a lot of time to move and make sure everything is working. If it's just a white label service then yes, easy to switch back. If it's not directly comparable then integration costs (in time) can mean you've been "dumped in the road half way there". Of course if the driver tells you directly "I might have to drop you half way" then that's fine.
  - dinkleberg 3y ago
    It takes a couple of minutes to setup services like these (be it netlify, vercel, Cloudflare, etc.) You connect your repo, tell it what command to run, and then which directory to grab. If you’re using a popular framework like Hugo they’ll often auto detect all of those settings for you.
    - toolz 3y ago
      They are not interchangeable though and that's the crux of it. When a service like this tells you you're eligible for using their product for free and then boot you off their service, they are potentially leaving you in a worse state than if you had never used their service to begin with. It's hard to express how benign most of this is and I'm not trying to oversell the damages, but there is potential for it to be bad and thus at some point there's a responsibility to your users (that champion your product and give you indirect value) to do at least the bare minimum of giving them an email or something. It certainly takes less time for netlify to send an email than it does for their users to change platforms.
      - surge 3y ago
        Right, its called vendor lock in. It's why a lot of services offer a free tier, to reduce the upfront investment in the hopes you'll settle in and eventually pay. It's why students get free software licenses, etc. It's a valid way of doing business, and its not like the consumer isn't aware of the risks. If you want to support a business on a free demo, don't get mad when you get no SLA. In either case, they fixed the problem, but the expectation of immediate support on a free account is silly.
  - surge 3y ago
    > Hmm, moving to a free service can take a lot of time, there might be lock-in? Which is why it's good to pay for the product to get support once you're dependent on it. It's why cloud providers give companies and devs free credit. Once you've built it on that platform, you're less likely to want to move, and might need to scale, and get support once you're making money. This is how free tiers work, they're basically a demo, and they can cancel accounts for abuse or get around to fixing problems if and when they feel like it. You're also welcome to find another service...that's free, that provides great support and hope they stick around. Going back to the free sample analogy, you can get one for free, but if you want the full product (including support), you gotta pay.
tekla 3y ago
If you didn't pay anything for it, you're not owed anything.
- usea 3y ago
  You're owed the truth and protections under the law.
- jasonlotito 3y ago
  People who signup for free accounts generally provide personal data in exchange for services according to the ToS they agreed to while signing up. You are owed what is prescribed in the ToS and other agreements. "pay" is inaccurate. "Consideration" is the word you are looking for. It's silly to think otherwise.
- asimovfan 3y ago
  The law will probably disagree in some cases :)
- bamfly 3y ago
  Oh thank god. These kids of mine were getting expensive.

by toolz 3y ago

barry-cotter 3y ago

> If people are planning their near future based on what you've said you would likely be giving them, then at some point there is probably some inherited responsibility to at least give the user of that service a heads up so they can make other plans if possible. If you’re not paying for it you’re not owed anything. Someone was doing you a favour at their expense and then they stopped. If you want something you can rely on pay for it.

lesuorac 3y ago

The ride analogy is not a good one because you're in a different spot from where you started. While with Netlify the person is back at exactly where they started before Netlify was hosting w/e their project was. So they're in the same neighborhood with the same battery level as they started with. The free tier is very clearly not for professional work so its really more like if your buddy said they could pick you up but they won't move a couch for you and you showed up with a couch and they just left.

pbhjpbhj 3y ago
>While with Netlify the person is back at exactly where they started // Hmm, moving to a free service can take a lot of time, there might be lock-in? I don't have specific experience of netlify. I stayed with my hosting provider despite them doubling my costs just because it would take a long time to find another trustable provider with the offering I need and then a lot of time to move and make sure everything is working. If it's just a white label service then yes, easy to switch back. If it's not directly comparable then integration costs (in time) can mean you've been "dumped in the road half way there". Of course if the driver tells you directly "I might have to drop you half way" then that's fine.
- dinkleberg 3y ago
  It takes a couple of minutes to setup services like these (be it netlify, vercel, Cloudflare, etc.) You connect your repo, tell it what command to run, and then which directory to grab. If you’re using a popular framework like Hugo they’ll often auto detect all of those settings for you.
  - toolz 3y ago
    They are not interchangeable though and that's the crux of it. When a service like this tells you you're eligible for using their product for free and then boot you off their service, they are potentially leaving you in a worse state than if you had never used their service to begin with. It's hard to express how benign most of this is and I'm not trying to oversell the damages, but there is potential for it to be bad and thus at some point there's a responsibility to your users (that champion your product and give you indirect value) to do at least the bare minimum of giving them an email or something. It certainly takes less time for netlify to send an email than it does for their users to change platforms.
    - surge 3y ago
      Right, its called vendor lock in. It's why a lot of services offer a free tier, to reduce the upfront investment in the hopes you'll settle in and eventually pay. It's why students get free software licenses, etc. It's a valid way of doing business, and its not like the consumer isn't aware of the risks. If you want to support a business on a free demo, don't get mad when you get no SLA. In either case, they fixed the problem, but the expectation of immediate support on a free account is silly.
- surge 3y ago
  > Hmm, moving to a free service can take a lot of time, there might be lock-in? Which is why it's good to pay for the product to get support once you're dependent on it. It's why cloud providers give companies and devs free credit. Once you've built it on that platform, you're less likely to want to move, and might need to scale, and get support once you're making money. This is how free tiers work, they're basically a demo, and they can cancel accounts for abuse or get around to fixing problems if and when they feel like it. You're also welcome to find another service...that's free, that provides great support and hope they stick around. Going back to the free sample analogy, you can get one for free, but if you want the full product (including support), you gotta pay.

tekla 3y ago

If you didn't pay anything for it, you're not owed anything.

usea 3y ago
You're owed the truth and protections under the law.
jasonlotito 3y ago
People who signup for free accounts generally provide personal data in exchange for services according to the ToS they agreed to while signing up. You are owed what is prescribed in the ToS and other agreements. "pay" is inaccurate. "Consideration" is the word you are looking for. It's silly to think otherwise.
asimovfan 3y ago
The law will probably disagree in some cases :)
bamfly 3y ago
Oh thank god. These kids of mine were getting expensive.