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I've actually been cutting out caffeine after listening to Michael Pollan talk about drugs and society on NPR. Turns out the half life is typically long enough

I've actually been cutting out caffeine after listening to Michael Pollan talk about drugs and society on NPR. Turns out the half life is typically long enough that using caffeine every day long term will lead to cognitive decline because of sleep deprivation. It's good for an occasional boost, but you're really burning the candle at both ends.

sschueller 3y ago
Yes, this calculator doesn't show how you end up a week later when your base level isn't zero. Taking a 2 day break from coffee can help a lot.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  Yeah, I have no caffeine on weekends and that just seemed like a good idea to me without any evidence.
cainxinth 3y ago
I'm off caffeine after many years of daily consumption. Took a few weeks, but my energy level is now about the same as it was before I quit and I no longer feel tired without it. I do quite miss the taste and ritual of tea and coffee, though.
- seeknotfind 3y ago
  I stopped caffeine for 2 years and never felt the same. Happy for you.
_aavaa_ 3y ago
This one? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/821402773/michael-pollan-on-the-drug-we-use-every-day-caffeine https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/821402773/michael-pollan-on-t...
- icouldntresist 3y ago
  That looks like it, but I heard it in 2022 or 2023, might have been a re-run. I can't listen to it right now, but I remember in the program he was talking about publishing some of his books describing his experiences with illegal substances and he had his publisher agree to pay all potential legal costs on top of paying his regular salary to his wife in case of incarceration.
TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
I don’t get it. If you only consume caffeine in the morning, every morning, how does it affect your sleep? By bedtime it is all metabolized.
- icouldntresist 3y ago
  > By bedtime it is all metabolized. According to Pollan, for most people, there's still enough in your system to disrupt your natural sleep; your brain doesn't shut down enough to get a good rest. IIRC, he was discussing monitoring brain activity during sleep and you can see the difference between people who drank coffee that morning, and people who didn't. Caffeine has just about left your system completely around the time you wake up and start drinking it again, which usually isn't too long before you start getting caffeine withdrawal symptoms. edit: half life for caffeine is 2-12[1] hours (most sources claim ~5), depending on the person. For a half life of 6 hours (using this because it's close to 5 and divides evenly into 24), you still have >1/8 of what you drank that morning in your system when you go to bed, and 1/16 when you wake up. Over the course of a lifetime, it's not hard to imagine that having a cumulative effect. 1: https://www.sleepfoundation.org/nutrition/how-long-does-it-take-caffeine-to-wear-off https://www.sleepfoundation.org/nutrition/how-long-does-it-t...
  - zer8k 3y ago
    What is good rest? I get 80 minutes or more a night of deep sleep regardless of my morning caffeine intake. I almost always wake up well rested and still drink ~300mg of caffeine over the course of a day. I didn't read the book, but from his interviews it sounds like all he did was gather N=1 over sufficient time to show it effects him. This is one case where I am going to have to appeal to authority. I have yet to see evidence your morning coffee is destroying your cognitive function. I have not experienced it either. Given my data is just as valid as his I would like to see actual controlled studies on this. In particular on the absolutely outlandish claim that 1/8th to 1/16th of the dose of caffeine remaining in your body does anything if you're consuming it only in the mornings.
    - icouldntresist 3y ago
smohare 3y ago
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staticman2 3y ago
80% of adults have caffeine intake in a given day. So what's more plausible, that 80% of adults have cognitive decline, or the author in question is full of crap?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  given the state of society, why do you think everyone is thinking well?
  - staticman2 3y ago
    Given the word "cognitive" was used I assume "cognitive decline" refers to some sort of scientific measurement like an IQ test. If 80% of the population is experiencing it that would be pretty easy to measure, I would think? If we are just discussing whether human beings are awful... humans were being awful far before the popularization of coffee beans, so that seems like a red herring in general.
ansraliant 3y ago
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sschueller 3y ago

Yes, this calculator doesn't show how you end up a week later when your base level isn't zero. Taking a 2 day break from coffee can help a lot.

SirMaster 3y ago
Yeah, I have no caffeine on weekends and that just seemed like a good idea to me without any evidence.

cainxinth 3y ago

I'm off caffeine after many years of daily consumption. Took a few weeks, but my energy level is now about the same as it was before I quit and I no longer feel tired without it. I do quite miss the taste and ritual of tea and coffee, though.

seeknotfind 3y ago
I stopped caffeine for 2 years and never felt the same. Happy for you.

_aavaa_ 3y ago

This one? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/821402773/michael-pollan-on-the-drug-we-use-every-day-caffeine https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/821402773/michael-pollan-on-t...

icouldntresist 3y ago
That looks like it, but I heard it in 2022 or 2023, might have been a re-run. I can't listen to it right now, but I remember in the program he was talking about publishing some of his books describing his experiences with illegal substances and he had his publisher agree to pay all potential legal costs on top of paying his regular salary to his wife in case of incarceration.

TedDoesntTalk 3y ago

I don’t get it. If you only consume caffeine in the morning, every morning, how does it affect your sleep? By bedtime it is all metabolized.

icouldntresist 3y ago
> By bedtime it is all metabolized. According to Pollan, for most people, there's still enough in your system to disrupt your natural sleep; your brain doesn't shut down enough to get a good rest. IIRC, he was discussing monitoring brain activity during sleep and you can see the difference between people who drank coffee that morning, and people who didn't. Caffeine has just about left your system completely around the time you wake up and start drinking it again, which usually isn't too long before you start getting caffeine withdrawal symptoms. edit: half life for caffeine is 2-12[1] hours (most sources claim ~5), depending on the person. For a half life of 6 hours (using this because it's close to 5 and divides evenly into 24), you still have >1/8 of what you drank that morning in your system when you go to bed, and 1/16 when you wake up. Over the course of a lifetime, it's not hard to imagine that having a cumulative effect. 1: https://www.sleepfoundation.org/nutrition/how-long-does-it-take-caffeine-to-wear-off https://www.sleepfoundation.org/nutrition/how-long-does-it-t...
- zer8k 3y ago
  What is good rest? I get 80 minutes or more a night of deep sleep regardless of my morning caffeine intake. I almost always wake up well rested and still drink ~300mg of caffeine over the course of a day. I didn't read the book, but from his interviews it sounds like all he did was gather N=1 over sufficient time to show it effects him. This is one case where I am going to have to appeal to authority. I have yet to see evidence your morning coffee is destroying your cognitive function. I have not experienced it either. Given my data is just as valid as his I would like to see actual controlled studies on this. In particular on the absolutely outlandish claim that 1/8th to 1/16th of the dose of caffeine remaining in your body does anything if you're consuming it only in the mornings.
  - icouldntresist 3y ago

smohare 3y ago

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staticman2 3y ago

80% of adults have caffeine intake in a given day. So what's more plausible, that 80% of adults have cognitive decline, or the author in question is full of crap?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
red-iron-pine 3y ago
given the state of society, why do you think everyone is thinking well?
- staticman2 3y ago
  Given the word "cognitive" was used I assume "cognitive decline" refers to some sort of scientific measurement like an IQ test. If 80% of the population is experiencing it that would be pretty easy to measure, I would think? If we are just discussing whether human beings are awful... humans were being awful far before the popularization of coffee beans, so that seems like a red herring in general.

ansraliant 3y ago

[dead]