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The greatest thing about technology is that it will ultimately enable superabundance. We have a duty to leverage technology for the greater good of humanity &

The greatest thing about technology is that it will ultimately enable superabundance. We have a duty to leverage technology for the greater good of humanity & civilization.

hnbad 3y ago
The problem isn't abundance or scarcity, the problem at this point is equal access. We have entire countries stuck in poverty selling their resources (human and natural alike) for a pittance like indentured servants and we have individuals hoarding and amassing more wealth and riches than they could spend or use in a thousand lifetimes. We also have a global economic system that by necessity wastes these precious resources in products that get shredded without being used, food that gets destroyed without being eaten and machines that are being run without getting to fulfill their purpose. So on the one hand we have wasteful overproduction for the rich (relatively - which, globally speaking, includes everyone on HN) and on the other we have a handful of the extremely rich (the fraction of a permille of the globally richest people) wasting the equivalent of dozens of poverty lifetimes worth of resources on their fancies. This seems like an easy problem to solve but we need the extreme poverty to maintain the narrative that enables the extremely rich to exist. In other words, no matter how much we expand the "abundance" we also need to maintain the scarcity because the differential is what enables our economic system and those benefitting from it the most. Those who have the most also have the most to lose from the elimination of scarcity.
- jojobas 3y ago
  In other words, somebody should forfeit what they think is hard-earned to some foreigners for nothing. We have hard enough time convincing people to share with your actual neighbours, good luck with weird people from across the world doing civil wars and female genital mutilations.
- churchill 3y ago
  And you are the Righteous Judge of the Universe who will determine how to redistribute those resources? I live in a third-world country (Nigeria) and every part of the economy that doesn't work is because of compassionate, self-anointed do-gooders like you trying to plan the economy. The only parts of the economy that work are the chaotic parts that the government has left alone to be developed by the greedy 'individuals hoarding and amassing more wealth and riches than they could spend or use in a thousand lifetimes.' Even when the West sends foreign aid, it is diverted to politicians and used to equip armies that oppress the local populations, while countries like China that have left the market run its course have jumped from having a billion poor to lifting 600 million out of poverty. Leave the market alone, keep your compassion - nobody needs it. The amoral market is the only way out of poverty.
  - hnbad 3y ago
    I'm not anti-market. I don't believe in planned economies, certainly not Soviet-style ones. > Even when the West sends foreign aid, it is diverted to politicians The function of a system is what it does. Do you think "the West" is just extremely foolish and doesn't know where that money goes, or do you think there might be a benefit to "the West" when those politicians become dependent on this money? > while countries like China that have left the market run its course China has been extremely protectionist and very tightly controls what foreign companies and investors can do in its market. It only started applying for World Bank loans in the late 80s and even then only for very targeted investment programs. Why do you think that is?
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    > while countries like China that have left the market run its course have jumped from having a billion poor to lifting 600 million out of poverty. It's more complicated and nasty than that. Markets are much more efficient than central planning. Outside of perhaps North Korea, nations mix them to varying degrees and ways. The Chinese government permits markets up to a certain size, and then it begins taking over the large players via things like replacing leadership, buying off leaders, absorbing leaders, threatening leaders with "re-education", things like that. The companies then engage in markets internationally but are heavily managed internally by the government. Just look what happened to Jack Ma. So China is using these international markets to bring in tons of money and has brought generations out of poverty. BUT We shouldn't ignore the One Child Policy that lasted for decades. We also shouldn't ignore than Deng Xiaoping's market reforms came _after_ Mao killed 10s of millions of people pushing his Communist utopia. We shouldn't ignore that the Chinese population was deliberately restricted so there would be fewer Chinese to divide the prosperity among. It's complicated and nasty. I'm less familiar with the Chinese government's involvement in African nations, but the bit I've gathered is this: they are the dealer at the casino, they always have the advantage, even if you're winning individually, the casino is raping everyone else. Yes, nations should be wary of foreign aid from The West. Nations should also be wary of investment from China. Neither are looking out for the people of the nations they claim to be helping.
    - 3y ago
- citrin_ru 3y ago
  > The problem isn't abundance or scarcity, the problem at this point is equal access. Efficient use of resources is also a big problem. Resources wasted in every society to some degree but knowing/seeing how they were wasted on a scale in USSR left a very strong impression. And this waste was not about equal access (though it was not equal too) but about incentives and caring (or rather not caring about anything you don't own and people owned almost nothing).
troupo 3y ago
> The greatest thing about technology is that it will ultimately enable superabundance. We already live in a world of superabundance. It's just not spread evenly.
- imtringued 3y ago
  Our economic system also fails during abundance. When there is scarcity everyone knows what to do.
- beebeepka 3y ago
  The vast majority of humans can only dream of that mythical superabundance you keep talking about. For if they were to experience it, even briefly, the endless consumables you seem to enjoy will disappear before you know it. It's depressing reading willfully oblivious stuff like this when the planet is being ravaged. It is a zero sum game.
intalentive 3y ago
Technology can't create energy, and energy is becoming less abundant.
- theultdev 3y ago
  There's an immense amount of energy stored in every atom.
- mkaic 3y ago
  Luckily, we have a gigantic fusion reactor in the sky that's not set to be decommissioned any time in the next billion years and which outputs orders of magnitude more energy than is needed by our civilization. Otherwise, we'd be screwed :P
- Brusco_RF 3y ago
  Technology can capture energy, and the amount of energy we capture increases every year.
CatWChainsaw 3y ago
Technohopium like this serves as a good reminder that people who think they're smarter than everyone else are usually a few cards short of a deck.

The greatest thing about technology is that it will ultimately enable superabundance. We have a duty to leverage technology for the greater good of humanity & civilization.

hnbad 3y ago

The problem isn't abundance or scarcity, the problem at this point is equal access. We have entire countries stuck in poverty selling their resources (human and natural alike) for a pittance like indentured servants and we have individuals hoarding and amassing more wealth and riches than they could spend or use in a thousand lifetimes. We also have a global economic system that by necessity wastes these precious resources in products that get shredded without being used, food that gets destroyed without being eaten and machines that are being run without getting to fulfill their purpose. So on the one hand we have wasteful overproduction for the rich (relatively - which, globally speaking, includes everyone on HN) and on the other we have a handful of the extremely rich (the fraction of a permille of the globally richest people) wasting the equivalent of dozens of poverty lifetimes worth of resources on their fancies. This seems like an easy problem to solve but we need the extreme poverty to maintain the narrative that enables the extremely rich to exist. In other words, no matter how much we expand the "abundance" we also need to maintain the scarcity because the differential is what enables our economic system and those benefitting from it the most. Those who have the most also have the most to lose from the elimination of scarcity.

jojobas 3y ago
In other words, somebody should forfeit what they think is hard-earned to some foreigners for nothing. We have hard enough time convincing people to share with your actual neighbours, good luck with weird people from across the world doing civil wars and female genital mutilations.
churchill 3y ago
And you are the Righteous Judge of the Universe who will determine how to redistribute those resources? I live in a third-world country (Nigeria) and every part of the economy that doesn't work is because of compassionate, self-anointed do-gooders like you trying to plan the economy. The only parts of the economy that work are the chaotic parts that the government has left alone to be developed by the greedy 'individuals hoarding and amassing more wealth and riches than they could spend or use in a thousand lifetimes.' Even when the West sends foreign aid, it is diverted to politicians and used to equip armies that oppress the local populations, while countries like China that have left the market run its course have jumped from having a billion poor to lifting 600 million out of poverty. Leave the market alone, keep your compassion - nobody needs it. The amoral market is the only way out of poverty.
- hnbad 3y ago
  I'm not anti-market. I don't believe in planned economies, certainly not Soviet-style ones. > Even when the West sends foreign aid, it is diverted to politicians The function of a system is what it does. Do you think "the West" is just extremely foolish and doesn't know where that money goes, or do you think there might be a benefit to "the West" when those politicians become dependent on this money? > while countries like China that have left the market run its course China has been extremely protectionist and very tightly controls what foreign companies and investors can do in its market. It only started applying for World Bank loans in the late 80s and even then only for very targeted investment programs. Why do you think that is?
- brightlancer 3y ago
  > while countries like China that have left the market run its course have jumped from having a billion poor to lifting 600 million out of poverty. It's more complicated and nasty than that. Markets are much more efficient than central planning. Outside of perhaps North Korea, nations mix them to varying degrees and ways. The Chinese government permits markets up to a certain size, and then it begins taking over the large players via things like replacing leadership, buying off leaders, absorbing leaders, threatening leaders with "re-education", things like that. The companies then engage in markets internationally but are heavily managed internally by the government. Just look what happened to Jack Ma. So China is using these international markets to bring in tons of money and has brought generations out of poverty. BUT We shouldn't ignore the One Child Policy that lasted for decades. We also shouldn't ignore than Deng Xiaoping's market reforms came _after_ Mao killed 10s of millions of people pushing his Communist utopia. We shouldn't ignore that the Chinese population was deliberately restricted so there would be fewer Chinese to divide the prosperity among. It's complicated and nasty. I'm less familiar with the Chinese government's involvement in African nations, but the bit I've gathered is this: they are the dealer at the casino, they always have the advantage, even if you're winning individually, the casino is raping everyone else. Yes, nations should be wary of foreign aid from The West. Nations should also be wary of investment from China. Neither are looking out for the people of the nations they claim to be helping.
  - 3y ago
citrin_ru 3y ago
> The problem isn't abundance or scarcity, the problem at this point is equal access. Efficient use of resources is also a big problem. Resources wasted in every society to some degree but knowing/seeing how they were wasted on a scale in USSR left a very strong impression. And this waste was not about equal access (though it was not equal too) but about incentives and caring (or rather not caring about anything you don't own and people owned almost nothing).

troupo 3y ago

> The greatest thing about technology is that it will ultimately enable superabundance. We already live in a world of superabundance. It's just not spread evenly.

imtringued 3y ago
Our economic system also fails during abundance. When there is scarcity everyone knows what to do.
beebeepka 3y ago
The vast majority of humans can only dream of that mythical superabundance you keep talking about. For if they were to experience it, even briefly, the endless consumables you seem to enjoy will disappear before you know it. It's depressing reading willfully oblivious stuff like this when the planet is being ravaged. It is a zero sum game.

intalentive 3y ago

Technology can't create energy, and energy is becoming less abundant.

theultdev 3y ago
There's an immense amount of energy stored in every atom.
mkaic 3y ago
Luckily, we have a gigantic fusion reactor in the sky that's not set to be decommissioned any time in the next billion years and which outputs orders of magnitude more energy than is needed by our civilization. Otherwise, we'd be screwed :P
Brusco_RF 3y ago
Technology can capture energy, and the amount of energy we capture increases every year.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago

Technohopium like this serves as a good reminder that people who think they're smarter than everyone else are usually a few cards short of a deck.