5 ms·

I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision. They cover a few obvious things (food scraps, junk mail) and miss

by rendaw 3y ago

I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision. They cover a few obvious things (food scraps, junk mail) and miss 99% of the stuff I actually have to throw out. At university there was an introductory talk about recycling, where they threatened that a single wrongly discarded piece of trash (uncleaned bottles or food containers IIRC) would prevent the whole batch from being recycled. The obvious conclusion being that if there's even a small amount of doubt about whether something can be recycled, it'd be better not to put it in the recycling bin (and risk the rest of the properly recyclable trash). I reached out for clarification on various policies - what about bonded plastic + paper, how clean, mixed plastics in bottle assemblies, unlabeled products, etc and they weren't able to answer. So I'm not at all surprised consumers aren't effectual. That said, while I want to believe machines are doing a much better, do you have any sources on the recycling statistics? San Jose claims to be an outlier at 74% recycling (diversion rate?) https://www.epa.gov/transforming-waste-tool/zero-waste-case-study-san-jose https://www.epa.gov/transforming-waste-tool/zero-waste-case-... - nationwide municipal solid waste looks like only about 1/3 recycled https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-and-recycling/national-overview-facts-and-figures-materials https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-... . If these machines haven't been rolled out, are they very new, or are there some barriers to using them?

bmitc 3y ago
> I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision. The main one I can think of is the plastic bubble mailers and also the air packaging bubbles Amazon uses. The city says not to put them in the blue recycle bin. The mailer itself says take it to a grocery store. I take it to Whole Foods, owned by Amazon, ask the Amazon return staff where to put it, and they refer me to the general recycle bin in the front. Then there's a web address on them that says the same thing as above. I don't know what to actually do with them or where a magic plastic mailer dropbox is at. No one uses plastic bags around here anymore, so I don't have to worry about them. When I did have them, I typically reused them until they basically became trash.
- bhandziuk 3y ago
  I currently use grocery plastic bags as household garbage bags. I've not bought trash bags in a decade. It'll be slightly more pricy and less convenient if plastic bags go away. But maybe it's still good on the greater whole.
  - userbinator 3y ago
    Many people do that too, hence why the observation that banning them as "single use" when they're not, and forcing people to buy garbage bags instead, which are then actually single-use, is even worse.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Worse how? Carrying groceries home in a plastic bag, then using that bag for trash, costs one plastic bag of resources. Carrying groceries home in a cloth bag, then using a plastic bag for trash, costs one plastic bag of resources. Those are pretty much the same, as long as you're not burning through cloth bags. To put it simply: Using something twice is not better than avoiding a use and then using it once. And when I get plastic bags at the grocery store, a third of them end up too damaged to put trash into. The small size also makes them a lot less efficient at containing trash, despite them saving material by being half as thick.
      - userbinator 3y ago
        Cloth bags take up more volume and weight for the same capacity, and also cost a lot more to make. Of course you can reuse them many more times, and you need to do that to break even, but the former point still holds. And when I get plastic bags at the grocery store, a third of them end up too damaged to put trash into. That's unfortunate, but a natural consequence of optimising for profit based on a self-fulfilling prophecy: the belief that the bags will only be used once, leads to them being made so that they can barely be used once. The same optimisation for profit is likely happening with cloth bags too, but it's just not as obvious yet. That said, there are countless other occasions where a thin film of plastic comes in handy.
Google234 3y ago
You pay enoug for trash in the Bay Area to pay a person to sort the trash by hand
- nwiswell 3y ago
  > to pay a person Not in the Bay Area
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
toast0 3y ago
> I reached out for clarification on various policies - what about bonded plastic + paper, how clean, mixed plastics in bottle assemblies, unlabeled products, etc and they weren't able to answer. If you want to get the real answers to these questions, you need to reach out to the organization that hauls your trash and recyclables. Bonus if they also operate the sorting, but either way, they should know. California has high targets for solid waste diversion, in genreral and for specific categories. [1] I don't know how many sanitary districts meet 2011 AB341's policy goal of 75% by 2020, but in light of that goal, I don't think San Jose is an outlier within California. With high goals, the trash haulers are doing extensive sorting, figuring out what items are common in the garbage stream and finding ways to recycle them. It is a function of priorities and volume though. Where I live now in WA, there isn't enough volume to justify a lot of effort in diversion, especially since there's no state mandate making it a priority. It's easy and not very expensive to send everything on a train to Oregon, so that's what happens. [1] https://calrecycle.ca.gov/StateAgency/Requirements/LawsRegs/ https://calrecycle.ca.gov/StateAgency/Requirements/LawsRegs/
- Animats 3y ago
  > Where I live now in WA, there isn't enough volume to justify a lot of effort in diversion Big cities generate enough volume in waste that an automated sorting plant is a win. There's some interest in mini recycling plants, but not all that much progress. Agricultural areas that put plastic film over fields as a sort of greenhouse generate square miles of plastic film waste. That's worth recycling, because they have to collect it anyway and what's collected is mostly uniform plastic film.
  - toast0 3y ago
    Yeah, I don't live in a big city, but we're sort of close. It seems like it might make sense to ship to a nearby big city operation, but I guess once you're shipping, may as well go out of state.
civilitty 3y ago
> If these machines haven't been rolled out, are they very new, or are there some barriers to using them? Trash isn’t very high up on the list of priorities for most municipalities and the upgrade cycle is on the order of decades.
JohnFen 3y ago
> I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision. This is the largest issue, imo. It's all extremely vague and confusing. Combine that with the message that getting it wrong means that potentially all of the recycling in a batch will just go to the landfill because of contamination and it's understandable why people might be inclined to just throw everything away.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Well you are dealing with the general public. Precise guidelines are pointless outside of 10% of the population (I'm being generous). There is a lot of conflicting information rolling around the collective knowledge of the public as well. What really kills me is watching drywall get carted off to the landfill in demolitions. Like ... that can't be 99% recycled and reformed to other drywall? I spend a lot of time and effort recycling and reusing things, but one even minor remodel project (like carpet replacement) is such a massive amount of trash that it seems really pointless. I've been cleaning out my dead relative's house for a week or so, and I started with entire trailerloads of office paper/magazine/newspaper, then next I'll do electronics, then I start tackling furniture. A big one that seems weird to me is clothes recycling, I have to think that could be reused in insulation or other applications, but there's nowhere I can do it. People think I'm stupid not to just "get a dumpster". It feels much better to recycle a a ton or more of paper rather than just pitch it. Everyone dies, so estate cleanup should be so much more streamlined: - paper - clothes - appliances - furniture - electronics I would imagine that is about 80% of the bulk of most people's shit (see that? that is my stuff, but see that over there? that is your shit - george carlin, butchered) is those five categories. And yet everything takes exhaustive research and hunting to find where to properly recycle or handle it. I would guess almost everyone just trashes it all.
oakesm9 3y ago
> I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision I’ve been pretty impressed by the A-Z list which my local council in the UK has. Covers 95% of the questions I’ve had on what to put where https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/l https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/l and-waste-and-housing/waste-and-recycling/recycling-and-waste-prevention-in-west-sussex/a-to-z-of-recycling/
m463 3y ago
I went to the waste transfer station and was surprised to find they don't take styrofoam for recycling - it is waste.
Aerroon 3y ago
Why isn't there some kind of requirement on the packaging that tells the consumer which type of waste management system it should go to? It might not be feasible in the US, but what about smaller countries with a unified recycling system? They have to translate and add nutritional labels in the local language anyway. Ultimately only the manufacturer knows what exactly is in their packaging.
- Libcat99 3y ago
  The manufacturer should be responsible for providing the recycling service in the first place. Once the disposal/recycling costs are part of the initial purchase, consumers will make better choices. Include a core charge to encourage the consumer to get it back to the right place, as well.
  - Aerroon 3y ago
    That wouldn't work. It would put a heavy burden on imported products. If you're from a large country you might not really care about this, but companies are most definitely willing to just ignore certain markets that are difficult to enter if the markets are small enough. Ie the consumers in small countries will just have a lot less choice and there probably won't be any local competition either.

by rendaw 3y ago

bmitc 3y ago

> I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision. The main one I can think of is the plastic bubble mailers and also the air packaging bubbles Amazon uses. The city says not to put them in the blue recycle bin. The mailer itself says take it to a grocery store. I take it to Whole Foods, owned by Amazon, ask the Amazon return staff where to put it, and they refer me to the general recycle bin in the front. Then there's a web address on them that says the same thing as above. I don't know what to actually do with them or where a magic plastic mailer dropbox is at. No one uses plastic bags around here anymore, so I don't have to worry about them. When I did have them, I typically reused them until they basically became trash.

bhandziuk 3y ago
I currently use grocery plastic bags as household garbage bags. I've not bought trash bags in a decade. It'll be slightly more pricy and less convenient if plastic bags go away. But maybe it's still good on the greater whole.
- userbinator 3y ago
  Many people do that too, hence why the observation that banning them as "single use" when they're not, and forcing people to buy garbage bags instead, which are then actually single-use, is even worse.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    Worse how? Carrying groceries home in a plastic bag, then using that bag for trash, costs one plastic bag of resources. Carrying groceries home in a cloth bag, then using a plastic bag for trash, costs one plastic bag of resources. Those are pretty much the same, as long as you're not burning through cloth bags. To put it simply: Using something twice is not better than avoiding a use and then using it once. And when I get plastic bags at the grocery store, a third of them end up too damaged to put trash into. The small size also makes them a lot less efficient at containing trash, despite them saving material by being half as thick.
    - userbinator 3y ago
      Cloth bags take up more volume and weight for the same capacity, and also cost a lot more to make. Of course you can reuse them many more times, and you need to do that to break even, but the former point still holds. And when I get plastic bags at the grocery store, a third of them end up too damaged to put trash into. That's unfortunate, but a natural consequence of optimising for profit based on a self-fulfilling prophecy: the belief that the bags will only be used once, leads to them being made so that they can barely be used once. The same optimisation for profit is likely happening with cloth bags too, but it's just not as obvious yet. That said, there are countless other occasions where a thin film of plastic comes in handy.

Google234 3y ago

You pay enoug for trash in the Bay Area to pay a person to sort the trash by hand

nwiswell 3y ago
> to pay a person Not in the Bay Area

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

toast0 3y ago

> I reached out for clarification on various policies - what about bonded plastic + paper, how clean, mixed plastics in bottle assemblies, unlabeled products, etc and they weren't able to answer. If you want to get the real answers to these questions, you need to reach out to the organization that hauls your trash and recyclables. Bonus if they also operate the sorting, but either way, they should know. California has high targets for solid waste diversion, in genreral and for specific categories. [1] I don't know how many sanitary districts meet 2011 AB341's policy goal of 75% by 2020, but in light of that goal, I don't think San Jose is an outlier within California. With high goals, the trash haulers are doing extensive sorting, figuring out what items are common in the garbage stream and finding ways to recycle them. It is a function of priorities and volume though. Where I live now in WA, there isn't enough volume to justify a lot of effort in diversion, especially since there's no state mandate making it a priority. It's easy and not very expensive to send everything on a train to Oregon, so that's what happens. [1] https://calrecycle.ca.gov/StateAgency/Requirements/LawsRegs/ https://calrecycle.ca.gov/StateAgency/Requirements/LawsRegs/

Animats 3y ago
> Where I live now in WA, there isn't enough volume to justify a lot of effort in diversion Big cities generate enough volume in waste that an automated sorting plant is a win. There's some interest in mini recycling plants, but not all that much progress. Agricultural areas that put plastic film over fields as a sort of greenhouse generate square miles of plastic film waste. That's worth recycling, because they have to collect it anyway and what's collected is mostly uniform plastic film.
- toast0 3y ago
  Yeah, I don't live in a big city, but we're sort of close. It seems like it might make sense to ship to a nearby big city operation, but I guess once you're shipping, may as well go out of state.

civilitty 3y ago

> If these machines haven't been rolled out, are they very new, or are there some barriers to using them? Trash isn’t very high up on the list of priorities for most municipalities and the upgrade cycle is on the order of decades.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision. This is the largest issue, imo. It's all extremely vague and confusing. Combine that with the message that getting it wrong means that potentially all of the recycling in a batch will just go to the landfill because of contamination and it's understandable why people might be inclined to just throw everything away.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Well you are dealing with the general public. Precise guidelines are pointless outside of 10% of the population (I'm being generous). There is a lot of conflicting information rolling around the collective knowledge of the public as well. What really kills me is watching drywall get carted off to the landfill in demolitions. Like ... that can't be 99% recycled and reformed to other drywall? I spend a lot of time and effort recycling and reusing things, but one even minor remodel project (like carpet replacement) is such a massive amount of trash that it seems really pointless. I've been cleaning out my dead relative's house for a week or so, and I started with entire trailerloads of office paper/magazine/newspaper, then next I'll do electronics, then I start tackling furniture. A big one that seems weird to me is clothes recycling, I have to think that could be reused in insulation or other applications, but there's nowhere I can do it. People think I'm stupid not to just "get a dumpster". It feels much better to recycle a a ton or more of paper rather than just pitch it. Everyone dies, so estate cleanup should be so much more streamlined: - paper - clothes - appliances - furniture - electronics I would imagine that is about 80% of the bulk of most people's shit (see that? that is my stuff, but see that over there? that is your shit - george carlin, butchered) is those five categories. And yet everything takes exhaustive research and hunting to find where to properly recycle or handle it. I would guess almost everyone just trashes it all.

oakesm9 3y ago

> I've yet to see any recycling guidelines with anywhere near the amount of required precision I’ve been pretty impressed by the A-Z list which my local council in the UK has. Covers 95% of the questions I’ve had on what to put where https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/l https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/l and-waste-and-housing/waste-and-recycling/recycling-and-waste-prevention-in-west-sussex/a-to-z-of-recycling/

m463 3y ago

I went to the waste transfer station and was surprised to find they don't take styrofoam for recycling - it is waste.

Aerroon 3y ago

Why isn't there some kind of requirement on the packaging that tells the consumer which type of waste management system it should go to? It might not be feasible in the US, but what about smaller countries with a unified recycling system? They have to translate and add nutritional labels in the local language anyway. Ultimately only the manufacturer knows what exactly is in their packaging.

Libcat99 3y ago
The manufacturer should be responsible for providing the recycling service in the first place. Once the disposal/recycling costs are part of the initial purchase, consumers will make better choices. Include a core charge to encourage the consumer to get it back to the right place, as well.
- Aerroon 3y ago
  That wouldn't work. It would put a heavy burden on imported products. If you're from a large country you might not really care about this, but companies are most definitely willing to just ignore certain markets that are difficult to enter if the markets are small enough. Ie the consumers in small countries will just have a lot less choice and there probably won't be any local competition either.