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> I think the customer has just changed. Consumers don't have money anymore. Businesses do. ...You...recognize that's not a sustainable state of affairs, right

> I think the customer has just changed. Consumers don't have money anymore. Businesses do. ...You...recognize that's not a sustainable state of affairs, right? Ultimately, if consumers don't have money, the economy will start to collapse. The upper echelons can feed on each other for a while, but you need an economic base to support the whole edifice. Plus, if "consumers" are unable to get what they need for survival and thriving for long enough, they're going to decide (correctly) that someone has taken it from them, and take steps to get it back by whatever means necessary.

fnimick 3y ago
Which is why I expect a basic income to come before it gets to that point. Not enough for anyone to ever save or invest in themselves, just enough money handed out from the government to be sucked right back up into the rent-seeking money machine. > Plus, if "consumers" are unable to get what they need for survival and thriving for long enough, they're going to decide (correctly) that someone has taken it from them, and take steps to get it back by whatever means necessary. They'd better do it fast before rich people figure out that robot dogs with lethal weapons and AI vision are a great replacement for human guards that might have the downside of having any empathy. As soon as defense of property rights is fully automated, revolution is impossible.
- r2_pilot 3y ago
  >As soon as defense of property rights is fully automated, revolution is impossible. All entities run out of deployable assets eventually.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Not if they find a way to escape to space/mars.
api 3y ago
It was sustainable as long as interest rates were near or at zero. Businesses could raise money seemingly forever, and could grow on the backs of other businesses raising easy money. A lot of this could be a zero interest rate phenomenon.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> Ultimately, if consumers don't have money, the economy will start to collapse. The upper echelons can feed on each other for a while, but you need an economic base to support the whole edifice. They will take on debt in lieu of money. And all signs point to lots of that happening, since spending is still high.

fnimick 3y ago

Which is why I expect a basic income to come before it gets to that point. Not enough for anyone to ever save or invest in themselves, just enough money handed out from the government to be sucked right back up into the rent-seeking money machine. > Plus, if "consumers" are unable to get what they need for survival and thriving for long enough, they're going to decide (correctly) that someone has taken it from them, and take steps to get it back by whatever means necessary. They'd better do it fast before rich people figure out that robot dogs with lethal weapons and AI vision are a great replacement for human guards that might have the downside of having any empathy. As soon as defense of property rights is fully automated, revolution is impossible.

r2_pilot 3y ago
>As soon as defense of property rights is fully automated, revolution is impossible. All entities run out of deployable assets eventually.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Not if they find a way to escape to space/mars.

api 3y ago

It was sustainable as long as interest rates were near or at zero. Businesses could raise money seemingly forever, and could grow on the backs of other businesses raising easy money. A lot of this could be a zero interest rate phenomenon.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

> Ultimately, if consumers don't have money, the economy will start to collapse. The upper echelons can feed on each other for a while, but you need an economic base to support the whole edifice. They will take on debt in lieu of money. And all signs point to lots of that happening, since spending is still high.