2 ms·

In this case the entire logo previously exists though. I'm not sure similar cases exist but it's similar as using an old public domain logo as your own. Would

In this case the entire logo previously exists though. I'm not sure similar cases exist but it's similar as using an old public domain logo as your own. Would that be enforceable?

ben_w 3y ago
Now I'm curious where the original Apple logo came from… (And now I know: designed by Ron Wayne, so not public domain at all; and I'd forgotten about the ribbons with the text) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_of_Apple_Inc.#/media/File:Apple_first_logo.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_of_Apple_Inc.#/media...
jameshart 3y ago
Of course you can. 3M, Scotch, Crate & Barrel, Lufthansa and Jeep all have legitimate trademarked word marks that consist of nothing more than their name written in Helvetica.
- freejazz 3y ago
  That's a word mark... it doesn't matter what font it's in because the mark relates to the words, not a specific design of the words in display...
  - jameshart 3y ago
    The word mark registers the word as a trademark. The typographical and design treatment of the word can have separate trademark protection. That can be true whether or not a design mark is registered. If you started a car company called ‘Beep’ and write its name in olive green Helvetica Black, Jeep might struggle to make a case about your name’s similarity to their word mark (beep is a different word and rhyming is not a crime), but they for sure could take you to court for stealing their trade dress.
    - freejazz 3y ago
      So rather than make the point that the use in helvetica is captured in the word mark (it isn't) you instead add trade dress into this??
      - jameshart 3y ago
        Not in the word mark registration, sure. But registration is not the whole of trademark law is it? ‘Word mark’ is also just a term of art in graphic design referring to a logo consisting of just text - another word for logotype. Should I have said logotype instead?
        freejazz 3y ago
        It's captured in the trade dress - that's all you had to say. You don't have to say its captured in the word mark, because it isn't!
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  And every single one of those is in the Public Domain, because they don't meet the Threshold of Originality for copyright purposes. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:3M_wordmark.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:3M_wordmark.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Scotch-logo.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Scotch-logo.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crate_and_barrel_logo.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crate_and_barrel_log... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lufthansa_Logo_2018.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lufthansa_Logo_2018.... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jeep_logo.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jeep_logo.svg For more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordmark https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Threshold_of_originality https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Threshold_of_orig...
  - jameshart 3y ago
    Which is irrelevant to whether or not they are valid as trademarks

In this case the entire logo previously exists though. I'm not sure similar cases exist but it's similar as using an old public domain logo as your own. Would that be enforceable?

ben_w 3y ago

Now I'm curious where the original Apple logo came from… (And now I know: designed by Ron Wayne, so not public domain at all; and I'd forgotten about the ribbons with the text) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_of_Apple_Inc.#/media/File:Apple_first_logo.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_of_Apple_Inc.#/media...

jameshart 3y ago

Of course you can. 3M, Scotch, Crate & Barrel, Lufthansa and Jeep all have legitimate trademarked word marks that consist of nothing more than their name written in Helvetica.

freejazz 3y ago
That's a word mark... it doesn't matter what font it's in because the mark relates to the words, not a specific design of the words in display...
- jameshart 3y ago
  The word mark registers the word as a trademark. The typographical and design treatment of the word can have separate trademark protection. That can be true whether or not a design mark is registered. If you started a car company called ‘Beep’ and write its name in olive green Helvetica Black, Jeep might struggle to make a case about your name’s similarity to their word mark (beep is a different word and rhyming is not a crime), but they for sure could take you to court for stealing their trade dress.
  - freejazz 3y ago
    So rather than make the point that the use in helvetica is captured in the word mark (it isn't) you instead add trade dress into this??
    - jameshart 3y ago
      Not in the word mark registration, sure. But registration is not the whole of trademark law is it? ‘Word mark’ is also just a term of art in graphic design referring to a logo consisting of just text - another word for logotype. Should I have said logotype instead?
      - freejazz 3y ago
        It's captured in the trade dress - that's all you had to say. You don't have to say its captured in the word mark, because it isn't!
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
And every single one of those is in the Public Domain, because they don't meet the Threshold of Originality for copyright purposes. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:3M_wordmark.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:3M_wordmark.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Scotch-logo.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Scotch-logo.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crate_and_barrel_logo.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crate_and_barrel_log... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lufthansa_Logo_2018.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lufthansa_Logo_2018.... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jeep_logo.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jeep_logo.svg For more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wordmark https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Threshold_of_originality https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Threshold_of_orig...
- jameshart 3y ago
  Which is irrelevant to whether or not they are valid as trademarks