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Why shouldn't the owner/operator of a website be able to decide who to sling bits to? How is this, conceptually, any different from sites that used to block IE

by TylerE 3y ago

Why shouldn't the owner/operator of a website be able to decide who to sling bits to? How is this, conceptually, any different from sites that used to block IE out of spite?

userbinator 3y ago
How is this, conceptually, any different from sites that used to block IE out of spite? I don't agree with doing that either, but whereas things like changing UA headers/page-rewriting proxies would easily get around that sort of discrimination, this is now cryptographically secure. Governments are scared of encryption because it could be used against them. The population should've realised the same could also apply to them, because it is now actually happening.
dhx 3y ago
For the same reasons a shop owner must sell to all customers without discriminating on ethnicity, religion, disability, etc? Would it be acceptable for a website owner to block users from Detroit (78% African Americans)[1] or block users from El Paso (82% Hispanic)[2] because the website owner claims that fraudulent ad clicking is more prevalent from those cities? Would it be acceptable to only serve web pages to people without disabilities and without a need for specialist accessibility software because it's not economically viable to consider users with disabilities? Would the poorest 10% of the population be able to access web pages and services delivered over the Internet with old hardware (all they can afford) and with limited computer literacy and limited ability to raise complaints (that are ignored anyway or responded to by an AI algorithm that doesn't care)? A website owner is still discriminating when they hide behind technology such as AI algorithms, Web Integrity APIs, etc and pretend that their use of such technology is non-discriminatory. [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/detroitcitymichigan,MI/PST045222 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/detroitcitymich... [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/elpasocitytexas,elpasocountytexas/PST045222 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/elpasocitytexas...
- archerx 3y ago
  I block China and Turkey from some of my websites to reduce bots and hacking attempts, does this make me a bad person for discriminating or should I have to tolerate the script kiddies, ddosing and exploit searches? I’m not defending google’s crap but I should be able to block anyone I want from my websites if I choose.
  - bundie 3y ago
    > I block China and Turkey from some of my websites to reduce bots and hacking attempts, does this make me a bad person for discriminating or should I have to tolerate the script kiddies, ddosing and exploit searches? No.
  - allarm 3y ago
    > does this make me a bad person for discriminating Yes. And not only for discriminating. You make the web shittier than it already is, and more fragmented. > or should I have to tolerate the script kiddies, ddosing and exploit searches? This part is unrelated to the first part.
    - archerx 3y ago
      Yes, I am the bad guy for defending my sites from being defaced and my clients private data stolen from the bad actors coming from those two countries specifically. It is totally me making the internet a shittier place. If only I had the strength and energy to unblock those countries to tolerate the unrelenting abuse and attacks so I won't be such a terrible, horrible person.
      - allarm 3y ago
        > Yes, I am the bad guy What's the point of asking a question (...does this make me a bad person for discriminating?) if you're not ready to accept some of the answers? Yes, geoblocking totally makes the internet a shittier place. In the same way as the hackers and scriptkiddies make it the shittier place. It's a chicken and egg situation. You're blocking part of the world because it's dangerous waters. I am blocking part of the world because I disagree with the politics of that particular part. We are together making geo-blocking tolerable and acceptable. We're together making the internet more shitty than it deserves. Congratulations. By the way, I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same thing you did. I guess if I can't properly manage the security of a resource, the easiest way to deal with it would be to eliminate the source of the attack vector. I wouldn't deny that I'm part of the problem though. Because that's exactly what I am.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by TylerE 3y ago

Why shouldn't the owner/operator of a website be able to decide who to sling bits to? How is this, conceptually, any different from sites that used to block IE out of spite?

userbinator 3y ago

How is this, conceptually, any different from sites that used to block IE out of spite? I don't agree with doing that either, but whereas things like changing UA headers/page-rewriting proxies would easily get around that sort of discrimination, this is now cryptographically secure. Governments are scared of encryption because it could be used against them. The population should've realised the same could also apply to them, because it is now actually happening.

dhx 3y ago

For the same reasons a shop owner must sell to all customers without discriminating on ethnicity, religion, disability, etc? Would it be acceptable for a website owner to block users from Detroit (78% African Americans)[1] or block users from El Paso (82% Hispanic)[2] because the website owner claims that fraudulent ad clicking is more prevalent from those cities? Would it be acceptable to only serve web pages to people without disabilities and without a need for specialist accessibility software because it's not economically viable to consider users with disabilities? Would the poorest 10% of the population be able to access web pages and services delivered over the Internet with old hardware (all they can afford) and with limited computer literacy and limited ability to raise complaints (that are ignored anyway or responded to by an AI algorithm that doesn't care)? A website owner is still discriminating when they hide behind technology such as AI algorithms, Web Integrity APIs, etc and pretend that their use of such technology is non-discriminatory. [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/detroitcitymichigan,MI/PST045222 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/detroitcitymich... [2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/elpasocitytexas,elpasocountytexas/PST045222 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/elpasocitytexas...

archerx 3y ago
I block China and Turkey from some of my websites to reduce bots and hacking attempts, does this make me a bad person for discriminating or should I have to tolerate the script kiddies, ddosing and exploit searches? I’m not defending google’s crap but I should be able to block anyone I want from my websites if I choose.
- bundie 3y ago
  > I block China and Turkey from some of my websites to reduce bots and hacking attempts, does this make me a bad person for discriminating or should I have to tolerate the script kiddies, ddosing and exploit searches? No.
- allarm 3y ago
  > does this make me a bad person for discriminating Yes. And not only for discriminating. You make the web shittier than it already is, and more fragmented. > or should I have to tolerate the script kiddies, ddosing and exploit searches? This part is unrelated to the first part.
  - archerx 3y ago
    Yes, I am the bad guy for defending my sites from being defaced and my clients private data stolen from the bad actors coming from those two countries specifically. It is totally me making the internet a shittier place. If only I had the strength and energy to unblock those countries to tolerate the unrelenting abuse and attacks so I won't be such a terrible, horrible person.
    - allarm 3y ago
      > Yes, I am the bad guy What's the point of asking a question (...does this make me a bad person for discriminating?) if you're not ready to accept some of the answers? Yes, geoblocking totally makes the internet a shittier place. In the same way as the hackers and scriptkiddies make it the shittier place. It's a chicken and egg situation. You're blocking part of the world because it's dangerous waters. I am blocking part of the world because I disagree with the politics of that particular part. We are together making geo-blocking tolerable and acceptable. We're together making the internet more shitty than it deserves. Congratulations. By the way, I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same thing you did. I guess if I can't properly manage the security of a resource, the easiest way to deal with it would be to eliminate the source of the attack vector. I wouldn't deny that I'm part of the problem though. Because that's exactly what I am.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]