6 ms·

For once, it would be nice to have one of these articles just explain the facts without the editorialization. It makes it very difficult to actually understand

by Alupis 3y ago

For once, it would be nice to have one of these articles just explain the facts without the editorialization. It makes it very difficult to actually understand what's going on vs. the writer's agenda. > Government members openly brag about their intentions. They explain that since they won Israel’s last elections, it means they can now do anything they want. Like other authoritarian forces, the Israeli government doesn’t understand what democracy means. It thinks it is a dictatorship of the majority, and that those who win democratic elections are thereby granted unlimited power. What kind of writing is this? I'd expect better journalism from a high school newspaper... and this is from a journalism outfit that charges $70 monthly! The way the article is written, it reads like a tantrum from someone not getting what they want. The nuance is entirely lost, and the entire article is designed to have the reader come away with exactly one set of thoughts.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tguvot 3y ago
Current ruling coalition after establishing government all of sudden decided to do wide reaching reform of supreme court even though that they were running on platform of security and lowering cost of life. Reform will prevent supreme court from overruling unlawful laws and government actions. It will also give to government ability to pretty much appoint it's own judges to supreme court (currently there is a rather complicated scheme that requires a discussions and compromises). (this is very simplistic overview)(in last 30 years supreme court overruled 22 laws or so). Big part of population not happy with those changes and been protesting for past 7 months. A good chunk of people (30%-40% or so) who actually voted in current coalition are also against those changes. Ruling coalition has opinion that because they got majority that can do anything they want because this is democracy. Or something like this. There was long negotiations between coalition and opposition but they failed. In reality prime minister probably would have liked to cancel/soften reforms, but it will mean that his coalition will fall apart and current polls predict for them minority after elections PS. Today passed first law of the reform, which severely limits how supreme court can use "reasonableness" in making it's decisions with regards to government actions
- orwin 3y ago
  You shouldn't be able to pass reforms that change how the government is supposed to work without a 60% referendum imho. (or at most, you pass/activate the law but it must be confirmed within a year by referendum, and only in emergency settings).
qohen 3y ago
What kind of writing is this? It's an opinion piece (and is labelled as such). it reads like a tantrum from someone not getting what they want. Or like a patriotic cri de coeur from someone gravely concerned about decisions the government of his country is taking.
- Alupis 3y ago
  The problem is the lack of nuance, or anything from the other perspective. There's zero chance the "other side" woke up one day and decided to be evil. But that's how this article frames the situation, which does it far more disservice than the writer realizes. How about the article sharing why the "other side" views things they way they do? Share some polling on the subject, educate readers on both perspectives and possible goals and outcomes. Instead, it's all doomsday talk and how democracy is hanging on by a tired thread... Currently this just reads like the low/zero effort posts all to common in the US which essentially devolve into a tantrum when someone didn't get their way.
  - nocoiner 3y ago
    I think you are still not understanding what an opinion piece is? It’s fine that you weren’t persuaded by it - maybe it was a poor argument, or maybe you weren’t the target audience, or maybe you’re totally hidebound in your thinking and perfect rhetoric wouldn’t have moved your opinion in the slightest. Could be any or none of the above, and again, that’s OK! But at the end of the day, the author is under no obligation to state his opponents’ points for them.
    - Alupis 3y ago
      An opinion piece is a persuasive piece, as you've already noted. In persuasive writing, you are supposed to... persuade the audience to share your conclusion. This piece does no persuading. It's written for a certain subset of readers that already think poorly of the current Israeli government, and stops just short of shouting a token "Hitler!". Which leaves one to wonder - who's this piece really for then? It's not persuading anyone. We learn in grade school that persuasive pieces must address opposing viewpoints. It's not enough to just state your opinion within a vacuum. There's two sides to a disagreement, and making zero attempt to cross that threshold and provide context or discussion fails to bring anyone closer to the writer's viewpoint. Overall it's a very poorly written opinion, devoid of any facts or reality. It doesn't even present one "side" of the issue, it only shares the writer's naïve and poorly articulated viewpoint. In essence, this piece doesn't even need to exist... anyone who's going to agree with it already does, and no one else will take it seriously.
justbored123 3y ago
[dead]
invalidname 3y ago
The facts are hard to explain without context. It's an obscure legal ruling that's at the center, the idea that a judge can make a decision based on common sense. They outlawed common sense for judges. This is a part of a much greater movement with multiple forces in play trying to turn Israel into an autocracy. (Israeli, from Liberal side).
xenospn 3y ago
There is no nuance in Israel anymore, and the writing reflects just that.
hedgedoops2 3y ago
Here you go: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-20/ty-article/what-is-the-reasonableness-standard-and-why-axing-it-is-dangerous/00000188-d925-df52-a79d-dd27c72b0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-20/ty-article/wh... Note that abolishing the common law reasonableness standard isn't the only change Netanjahu had planned originally. He's been forced to backtrack a lot. The original proposals intended to allow the government to override supreme court decisions generally (not just ones based on the reasonableness doctrine). I dont see how this wouldn't have eliminated all legal limits to government power in Israel. In a sense there already aren't any limits: 50% of parliament is enough to change the basic laws.

by Alupis 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tguvot 3y ago

Current ruling coalition after establishing government all of sudden decided to do wide reaching reform of supreme court even though that they were running on platform of security and lowering cost of life. Reform will prevent supreme court from overruling unlawful laws and government actions. It will also give to government ability to pretty much appoint it's own judges to supreme court (currently there is a rather complicated scheme that requires a discussions and compromises). (this is very simplistic overview)(in last 30 years supreme court overruled 22 laws or so). Big part of population not happy with those changes and been protesting for past 7 months. A good chunk of people (30%-40% or so) who actually voted in current coalition are also against those changes. Ruling coalition has opinion that because they got majority that can do anything they want because this is democracy. Or something like this. There was long negotiations between coalition and opposition but they failed. In reality prime minister probably would have liked to cancel/soften reforms, but it will mean that his coalition will fall apart and current polls predict for them minority after elections PS. Today passed first law of the reform, which severely limits how supreme court can use "reasonableness" in making it's decisions with regards to government actions

orwin 3y ago
You shouldn't be able to pass reforms that change how the government is supposed to work without a 60% referendum imho. (or at most, you pass/activate the law but it must be confirmed within a year by referendum, and only in emergency settings).

qohen 3y ago

What kind of writing is this? It's an opinion piece (and is labelled as such). it reads like a tantrum from someone not getting what they want. Or like a patriotic cri de coeur from someone gravely concerned about decisions the government of his country is taking.

Alupis 3y ago
The problem is the lack of nuance, or anything from the other perspective. There's zero chance the "other side" woke up one day and decided to be evil. But that's how this article frames the situation, which does it far more disservice than the writer realizes. How about the article sharing why the "other side" views things they way they do? Share some polling on the subject, educate readers on both perspectives and possible goals and outcomes. Instead, it's all doomsday talk and how democracy is hanging on by a tired thread... Currently this just reads like the low/zero effort posts all to common in the US which essentially devolve into a tantrum when someone didn't get their way.
- nocoiner 3y ago
  I think you are still not understanding what an opinion piece is? It’s fine that you weren’t persuaded by it - maybe it was a poor argument, or maybe you weren’t the target audience, or maybe you’re totally hidebound in your thinking and perfect rhetoric wouldn’t have moved your opinion in the slightest. Could be any or none of the above, and again, that’s OK! But at the end of the day, the author is under no obligation to state his opponents’ points for them.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    An opinion piece is a persuasive piece, as you've already noted. In persuasive writing, you are supposed to... persuade the audience to share your conclusion. This piece does no persuading. It's written for a certain subset of readers that already think poorly of the current Israeli government, and stops just short of shouting a token "Hitler!". Which leaves one to wonder - who's this piece really for then? It's not persuading anyone. We learn in grade school that persuasive pieces must address opposing viewpoints. It's not enough to just state your opinion within a vacuum. There's two sides to a disagreement, and making zero attempt to cross that threshold and provide context or discussion fails to bring anyone closer to the writer's viewpoint. Overall it's a very poorly written opinion, devoid of any facts or reality. It doesn't even present one "side" of the issue, it only shares the writer's naïve and poorly articulated viewpoint. In essence, this piece doesn't even need to exist... anyone who's going to agree with it already does, and no one else will take it seriously.

justbored123 3y ago

[dead]

invalidname 3y ago

The facts are hard to explain without context. It's an obscure legal ruling that's at the center, the idea that a judge can make a decision based on common sense. They outlawed common sense for judges. This is a part of a much greater movement with multiple forces in play trying to turn Israel into an autocracy. (Israeli, from Liberal side).

xenospn 3y ago

There is no nuance in Israel anymore, and the writing reflects just that.

hedgedoops2 3y ago

Here you go: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-20/ty-article/what-is-the-reasonableness-standard-and-why-axing-it-is-dangerous/00000188-d925-df52-a79d-dd27c72b0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-20/ty-article/wh... Note that abolishing the common law reasonableness standard isn't the only change Netanjahu had planned originally. He's been forced to backtrack a lot. The original proposals intended to allow the government to override supreme court decisions generally (not just ones based on the reasonableness doctrine). I dont see how this wouldn't have eliminated all legal limits to government power in Israel. In a sense there already aren't any limits: 50% of parliament is enough to change the basic laws.