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If you're concerned about the rise of "incels" and gender relations generally, it's difficult to see how a façade of a woman that's programmed to say and do wha

If you're concerned about the rise of "incels" and gender relations generally, it's difficult to see how a façade of a woman that's programmed to say and do whatever said incel wants isn't reinforcing all the negative stereotypes associated with that group of people.

faeriechangling 3y ago
Incels are an inevitability in every generation, not just a recent phenomenon. What's recent is them getting organised. When many men will inevitably have no companionship at all without things like this AI, I think the value is obvious. Of course it ought to make negative stereotyping of the opposite sex more extreme, as the social pressure to conform will be increasingly removed, but regardless of how people feel about that AI girlfriends are inevitable. An AI girlfriend is some men's only choice because they simply will never be loved by an actual flesh and blood human being. Isn't an AI girlfriend more appealing than rejection followed by gaslighting about how rejection is all due to some moral failing on the Incel's fault? Since it's not obvious from my post, I don't see myself as an Incel or unlovable, I'm lucky.
- Racing0461 3y ago
  > not just a recent phenomenon I disagree. Countless studies shows that over the past 20 years, women sexlessness remains unchanged while men's tripled. (10% to 30%). Might even be worse today. Also other studies show women being single in ages 18-30 at 30% while men are at 60%. If there was a fundamental societal issue (lower wages, great recession, low real estate supply/high prices etc), one wouldn't expect the men's percentages to change by orders of magnitude while the women's to remain relatively unchanged (or not change by orders of magnitudes). I'm afraid the numbers are too big to gaslight a generation of men whose experiences reinforce this. Even my own experience, taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers, ide bet 80-90% of them are virgins or sexless. Also another anecdotal case where my 50/50 male/female workplace had an event where people brought their spouses (it was funny to notice in a sad kind of way), pretty much all the women (of all varying attractive levels) brought guys but barely any of the guys brough any women. Once i saw the stats, i began seeing it everywhere. One thing i do agree with you on though is this "What's recent is them getting organised". If they wren't sharing their experiences, guys would think there is something wrong with them as an individual person, but given the percentages, i'm afraid i can only conclude the changes in society withing the past 70 years (and more so the last 20) is causing this. Happy to be proven wrong tho (but current data and my own anecdotal experience unfortunately shows otherwise)
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    Is 20 or 70 years ago the baseline for all of human history? Does that represent how many men are "supposed" to be sexless? I'm not saying there isn't more or less of an issue with sexlessness in certain ages, or regions, or cultures. I'm just saying that Incel's are an inevitability in every generation. >Even my own experience, taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers, ide bet 80-90% of them are virgins or sexless. Look at the gender demographics in the areas where 250k FAANG engineers work. Honestly I'm not sure if those are truly Incel's or those are people who value money more than love, I know men making well under 100k full remote who are not that attractive who pull plenty because they moved to where they're high value on the dating market.
    - Racing0461 3y ago
      > 70 years ago the baseline for all of human history IMHO from a intersexual dynamics point of view, yes. (Invention of the birth control pill, abortion being legalized, no fault divorce, feminism, social media) all together was pretty much an inflection point. Things didn't change much before that sexually.
    - cbozeman 3y ago
      60%. 60% of men are supposed to be sexless. The reason we know this is because all of humanity descended from only 40% of the men to have ever lived. The rest might have had sex, but they never fathered children. Most men have died in warfare or to disease or starvation or being trampled by a woolly mammoth or were just plain "not good enough" for women. 80% of women have a living descendant today. And all this proves is what every "manosphere" personality jabbers on about nonstop... women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationships. We're just getting back closer to nature is all, and it's about to get worse as opposed to better.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers That pool of people is the opposite of representative of the general population of men, though.
  - 3y ago
- mrastro 3y ago
  Why is it inevitable that men will never be loved by another human? Given the gender ratio is approximately 50%-50%, that promiscuity decreases with age (so pickiness decreases), I'd expect that anyone (barring the small % of severely mental ill) that wants a relationship can (eventually) get one. I feel like the vast majority of incels will eventually be in a relationship. It's just they that are in a bad place mentally or have some genetic disadvantage. Like the article says, having an AI girlfriend may be a crutch to stay in this state for longer. I realize this is becoming a demographic issue in some countries e.g. China where there are too many men.
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    I don't believe at all that normal human sexual behaviour is for men and women to pair off into happy monogamous married couples. A lot of women would prefer having part of a great man than all of a mediocre one. Additionally, a lot of women would rather keep to themselves rather than date anybody. Whereas men are pretty much always down for at least a sexual relationship and trend towards a higher sex drive. So you end up with a discrepancy, at least when it comes to sexual relationships. In the past mediocre men might have been more easily been able to get into relationships on the promise of becoming a provider and maybe a stepfather, but it's a literal social goal of society to undermine that as much as possible so women don't have to be dependant on such relationships and tolerate such men and any of their misbehaviour. That's great for women, and the men can use AIs.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > Why is it inevitable that men will never be loved by another human? It's not. But if an individual thinks that it is, it can very easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

faeriechangling 3y ago

Incels are an inevitability in every generation, not just a recent phenomenon. What's recent is them getting organised. When many men will inevitably have no companionship at all without things like this AI, I think the value is obvious. Of course it ought to make negative stereotyping of the opposite sex more extreme, as the social pressure to conform will be increasingly removed, but regardless of how people feel about that AI girlfriends are inevitable. An AI girlfriend is some men's only choice because they simply will never be loved by an actual flesh and blood human being. Isn't an AI girlfriend more appealing than rejection followed by gaslighting about how rejection is all due to some moral failing on the Incel's fault? Since it's not obvious from my post, I don't see myself as an Incel or unlovable, I'm lucky.

Racing0461 3y ago
> not just a recent phenomenon I disagree. Countless studies shows that over the past 20 years, women sexlessness remains unchanged while men's tripled. (10% to 30%). Might even be worse today. Also other studies show women being single in ages 18-30 at 30% while men are at 60%. If there was a fundamental societal issue (lower wages, great recession, low real estate supply/high prices etc), one wouldn't expect the men's percentages to change by orders of magnitude while the women's to remain relatively unchanged (or not change by orders of magnitudes). I'm afraid the numbers are too big to gaslight a generation of men whose experiences reinforce this. Even my own experience, taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers, ide bet 80-90% of them are virgins or sexless. Also another anecdotal case where my 50/50 male/female workplace had an event where people brought their spouses (it was funny to notice in a sad kind of way), pretty much all the women (of all varying attractive levels) brought guys but barely any of the guys brough any women. Once i saw the stats, i began seeing it everywhere. One thing i do agree with you on though is this "What's recent is them getting organised". If they wren't sharing their experiences, guys would think there is something wrong with them as an individual person, but given the percentages, i'm afraid i can only conclude the changes in society withing the past 70 years (and more so the last 20) is causing this. Happy to be proven wrong tho (but current data and my own anecdotal experience unfortunately shows otherwise)
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  Is 20 or 70 years ago the baseline for all of human history? Does that represent how many men are "supposed" to be sexless? I'm not saying there isn't more or less of an issue with sexlessness in certain ages, or regions, or cultures. I'm just saying that Incel's are an inevitability in every generation. >Even my own experience, taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers, ide bet 80-90% of them are virgins or sexless. Look at the gender demographics in the areas where 250k FAANG engineers work. Honestly I'm not sure if those are truly Incel's or those are people who value money more than love, I know men making well under 100k full remote who are not that attractive who pull plenty because they moved to where they're high value on the dating market.
  - Racing0461 3y ago
    > 70 years ago the baseline for all of human history IMHO from a intersexual dynamics point of view, yes. (Invention of the birth control pill, abortion being legalized, no fault divorce, feminism, social media) all together was pretty much an inflection point. Things didn't change much before that sexually.
  - cbozeman 3y ago
    60%. 60% of men are supposed to be sexless. The reason we know this is because all of humanity descended from only 40% of the men to have ever lived. The rest might have had sex, but they never fathered children. Most men have died in warfare or to disease or starvation or being trampled by a woolly mammoth or were just plain "not good enough" for women. 80% of women have a living descendant today. And all this proves is what every "manosphere" personality jabbers on about nonstop... women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationships. We're just getting back closer to nature is all, and it's about to get worse as opposed to better.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > taking a bus to work filled with 250k FAANG engineers That pool of people is the opposite of representative of the general population of men, though.
- 3y ago
mrastro 3y ago
Why is it inevitable that men will never be loved by another human? Given the gender ratio is approximately 50%-50%, that promiscuity decreases with age (so pickiness decreases), I'd expect that anyone (barring the small % of severely mental ill) that wants a relationship can (eventually) get one. I feel like the vast majority of incels will eventually be in a relationship. It's just they that are in a bad place mentally or have some genetic disadvantage. Like the article says, having an AI girlfriend may be a crutch to stay in this state for longer. I realize this is becoming a demographic issue in some countries e.g. China where there are too many men.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  I don't believe at all that normal human sexual behaviour is for men and women to pair off into happy monogamous married couples. A lot of women would prefer having part of a great man than all of a mediocre one. Additionally, a lot of women would rather keep to themselves rather than date anybody. Whereas men are pretty much always down for at least a sexual relationship and trend towards a higher sex drive. So you end up with a discrepancy, at least when it comes to sexual relationships. In the past mediocre men might have been more easily been able to get into relationships on the promise of becoming a provider and maybe a stepfather, but it's a literal social goal of society to undermine that as much as possible so women don't have to be dependant on such relationships and tolerate such men and any of their misbehaviour. That's great for women, and the men can use AIs.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > Why is it inevitable that men will never be loved by another human? It's not. But if an individual thinks that it is, it can very easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy.