7 ms·

Might have just been based on what they could show at demo time – they can handle some core productivity stuff, but might not have had the time/access/team to p

by whafro 3y ago

Might have just been based on what they could show at demo time – they can handle some core productivity stuff, but might not have had the time/access/team to put together something compelling on gaming for that date.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
This seems unlikely given how much effort they put into the physical demo experience at the unveiling event, according to nearly all attendees. It's more likely that it simply doesn't have the processing or cooling capacity for an impressive game experience.
- meragrin_ 3y ago
  >> but might not have had the time/access/team to put together something compelling on gaming for that date. > This seems unlikely given how much effort they put into the physical demo experience at the unveiling event Can you name five games Apple has released in the past 10 years?
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    > Can you name five games Apple has released in the past 10 years? How does such a list of games relate to my comment?
  - JoshTko 3y ago
    Apple likely makes more in profit from App store games than Sony does overall.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    There's the How Much Will the Vison Pro Cost game, there's the When Will the SE 3 Come Out game, there the Will they Fix the Macbook Keyboard game, there's the How Many Ports Will It Have game, there's the Will They Give It HDMI and USB-A ports game, the Will They Switch Away From Intel game. You think I'm being facetious, but if you look at a game simply as a thing you spend time doing, and then consider the amount of digital ink spilled discussing those topics online and in-person discussions being had about them, the meta Apple is endlessly entertaining.
    - zen_1 3y ago
      I think you may have missed the part where games are supposed to be enjoyable (for all parties involved!)
      - fragmede 3y ago
        Dark Souls, Super Meat Boy, Sekiro, and all the other games in the "stupidly frustrating" genre would like to have a word with you.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- grumbel 3y ago
  I think the biggest problem is the controller and locomotion. Almost all VR games available right now use controllers to navigate around the virtual world. Meanwhile Apple has shown nothing that allows you to move around in the virtual world. All locomotion you do on Apple's headset happens in the real world via AR, the fully immersive experiences are basically limited to standing or sitting in place. This has the advantage of dramatically increasing the comfort, since motion sickness is largely caused by artificial locomotion with the controller, but it also drastically limits what kinds of games you can do in VR. I would expect them to expand on this area eventually, but I can understand why they wouldn't for the announcement, as for the time being they want the focus on VisionPro as a friendly computer/monitor/TV/cinema replacement.
  - soligern 3y ago
    I wonder if there is a way to stimulate the vestibular system externally to make it feel like actual locomotion and perhaps improve on the motion sickness.
    - pitched 3y ago
      There’s a very high overlap between VR sickness and normal motion/car sickness. That is also unsolved but with a much larger user base!
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      If you ever go near a high field magnet, they cause balance disturbances, so you can stimulate the system. However I’m not sure that putting 3T magnets near people isn’t an option.
    - grumbel 3y ago
      I don't think so. While you can artificially stimulate the vestibular system, getting that to work precisely across all the users of the headset would be rather tricky. But the even bigger issue is that even if you overcome that, you still have the fundamental problem that a correct vestibular response is extremely important to keep users from falling over. If you artificially give people the impression that they are accelerating or decelerating, they'll automatically compensate and lean into it and just fall over. This happens already often enough just from the visual stimulus alone, if you mess with the vestibular system those accidents would get a lot worse. That said, maybe there is some middle ground that could work where you don't create a real virtual vestibular input, but just a little jolt to notify the brain that something is going in, even if that something isn't matching the visuals. Many people report having less issue with motion sickness when they walk in place or bob their head. PlaystationVR2 has a small rumble motor build into the headsets with is supposed to help a little bit here as well.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
MBCook 3y ago
I think they were trying very hard not to be pigeonholed as a games device. If they had made a part of the presentation (outside the 3 second mention of Apple Arcade) about playing games I could see a lot of people spending even more time comparing it to an Oculus or PSVR2 and complaining it was insanely priced. Instead they did a pretty decent job of getting people discussing non-game use cases.

by whafro 3y ago

MichaelZuo 3y ago

This seems unlikely given how much effort they put into the physical demo experience at the unveiling event, according to nearly all attendees. It's more likely that it simply doesn't have the processing or cooling capacity for an impressive game experience.

meragrin_ 3y ago
>> but might not have had the time/access/team to put together something compelling on gaming for that date. > This seems unlikely given how much effort they put into the physical demo experience at the unveiling event Can you name five games Apple has released in the past 10 years?
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  > Can you name five games Apple has released in the past 10 years? How does such a list of games relate to my comment?
- JoshTko 3y ago
  Apple likely makes more in profit from App store games than Sony does overall.
- fragmede 3y ago
  There's the How Much Will the Vison Pro Cost game, there's the When Will the SE 3 Come Out game, there the Will they Fix the Macbook Keyboard game, there's the How Many Ports Will It Have game, there's the Will They Give It HDMI and USB-A ports game, the Will They Switch Away From Intel game. You think I'm being facetious, but if you look at a game simply as a thing you spend time doing, and then consider the amount of digital ink spilled discussing those topics online and in-person discussions being had about them, the meta Apple is endlessly entertaining.
  - zen_1 3y ago
    I think you may have missed the part where games are supposed to be enjoyable (for all parties involved!)
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Dark Souls, Super Meat Boy, Sekiro, and all the other games in the "stupidly frustrating" genre would like to have a word with you.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
grumbel 3y ago
I think the biggest problem is the controller and locomotion. Almost all VR games available right now use controllers to navigate around the virtual world. Meanwhile Apple has shown nothing that allows you to move around in the virtual world. All locomotion you do on Apple's headset happens in the real world via AR, the fully immersive experiences are basically limited to standing or sitting in place. This has the advantage of dramatically increasing the comfort, since motion sickness is largely caused by artificial locomotion with the controller, but it also drastically limits what kinds of games you can do in VR. I would expect them to expand on this area eventually, but I can understand why they wouldn't for the announcement, as for the time being they want the focus on VisionPro as a friendly computer/monitor/TV/cinema replacement.
- soligern 3y ago
  I wonder if there is a way to stimulate the vestibular system externally to make it feel like actual locomotion and perhaps improve on the motion sickness.
  - pitched 3y ago
    There’s a very high overlap between VR sickness and normal motion/car sickness. That is also unsolved but with a much larger user base!
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    If you ever go near a high field magnet, they cause balance disturbances, so you can stimulate the system. However I’m not sure that putting 3T magnets near people isn’t an option.
  - grumbel 3y ago
    I don't think so. While you can artificially stimulate the vestibular system, getting that to work precisely across all the users of the headset would be rather tricky. But the even bigger issue is that even if you overcome that, you still have the fundamental problem that a correct vestibular response is extremely important to keep users from falling over. If you artificially give people the impression that they are accelerating or decelerating, they'll automatically compensate and lean into it and just fall over. This happens already often enough just from the visual stimulus alone, if you mess with the vestibular system those accidents would get a lot worse. That said, maybe there is some middle ground that could work where you don't create a real virtual vestibular input, but just a little jolt to notify the brain that something is going in, even if that something isn't matching the visuals. Many people report having less issue with motion sickness when they walk in place or bob their head. PlaystationVR2 has a small rumble motor build into the headsets with is supposed to help a little bit here as well.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

MBCook 3y ago

I think they were trying very hard not to be pigeonholed as a games device. If they had made a part of the presentation (outside the 3 second mention of Apple Arcade) about playing games I could see a lot of people spending even more time comparing it to an Oculus or PSVR2 and complaining it was insanely priced. Instead they did a pretty decent job of getting people discussing non-game use cases.