11 ms·

The magnificence of the bluefin tuna

95 points by Petiver 3y ago

oxfeed65261 3y ago
https://archive.ph/W9UJ4 https://archive.ph/W9UJ4
jgwil2 3y ago
Beautiful animals. I hope we can find a way to coexist them.
- NovaDudely 3y ago
  The best way to co-exist with them is to leave them alone.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    The best way would be to learn to farm them. There's a reason there are more chickens on planet Earth than there are alligators or wombats. And it's very much the opposite of "leaving the chickens alone".
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      Depends on your definition of "coexist". I for one would rather go extinct than exist as a chicken on a modern-day chicken farm. Of course, it's only the "lucky" female chickens that get to exist - the male chicks go straight to the shredder.
      - psunavy03 3y ago
        And that's a nice hasty generalization. Just because some farmed species are treated in ways you may deem unethical doesn't mean all farmed species must be treated unethically in order to farm them.
        NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        I sympathize with him... the horrible things people do to cucumbers. People should start eating cruelty-free vegetables, like brown deciduous leaves already shed by the trees in fall.
        flarg 3y ago
        Surely in order achieve maximum return the animal farming process must become industrialised which leads to unpleasant outcomes for the animals involved. From chickens to salmon, small animals are treated poorly. Fish farms are a case in point, they destroy the local environment as well as constrain the farmed fish in unnatural ways.
        Asooka 3y ago
        Which is why we set standards for animal treatment and heavily fine those who break them so it is not maximally profitable. Happy, well fed, cared for animals are the tastiest and healthiest option. The well being of the animal directly translates to the quality of its meat.
        myshpa 3y ago
        > Happy, well fed, cared for plants are the tastiest, healthiest and most sustainable option There, repaired it for you.
        YellOh 3y ago
        > Happy, well fed, cared for animals are the tastiest and healthiest Surely you don't think the masses buying big macs give half a crap? Meat just needs to be cheap and edible, and apparently animals raised in horrible conditions are the best candidates on both counts. ~99% of U.S. meat comes from factory farms.[0] [0] https://www.humanesociety.org/news/facts-about-factory-farms https://www.humanesociety.org/news/facts-about-factory-farms
        hutzlibu 3y ago
        Can you name one farmed species, that is getting treated in ethical ways?
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        Fortunately for you, you're no where near being as delicious. That's the trick, remain awful-tasting.
        hutzlibu 3y ago
        Are you sure about that? It seems to be rather a cultural taboo. Cannibalistic tribes did disagree.
    - cratermoon 3y ago
      The chickens we farm aren't the same as the red junglefowl that was domesticated 8000 years ago.
      - canucker2016 3y ago
        In 50 years, chicken breeds have changed greatly in size going from under 1kg to over 4kg. See https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/10/2/6875031/chickens-breeding-farming-boilers-giant https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/10/2/6875031/chickens-breedi...
    - cubefox 3y ago
      These are big fast animals which likely require a large space to swim around, much more than a cow. This makes "farms" difficult. Speaking of which, the wild ancestor of today's cows (the aurox) was hunted to extinction.
      - nkingsy 3y ago
        The big ones are already largely ranched. It’s the breeding that isn’t happening
        cubefox 3y ago
        It's oddly similar to humans. When they are ranched in cities, their birth rates collapse. It’s the breeding that isn’t happening. Something about limited space dissuades us animals from procreation.
    - deltarholamda 3y ago
      Farming of big fish like bluefin tuna is difficult. They're still working on salmon, last I recall, as it turns out to be a lot more difficult than one would think. Farming catfish is an example of successful aquaculture, and even it isn't as simple as one would think. There was a point in the 90s (IIRC) where tiny farm ponds (1-2 acres or less) in the US were producing some huge percentage of all farmed catfish, 60-70% or thereabouts. When ethanol subsidies really kicked off, all the corn went to make faux gasoline, which meant it wasn't as available for fish feed, and the price of the feed closed the farm ponds, which were filled in and planted. (Probably with corn.) The Romans used to eat a lot of mullet, as this fish lived in their canals and waterways, and are easy to catch with nets. But the mullet is a terroir fish--it tastes like where it lives--and as the canals and waterways got gross, so did the fish. Mullet is thought of as poor people food now, there's a reason why on the Gulf Coast they're called "Biloxi bacon." But it would be a much simpler fish to farm, as long as you can keep the water clean.
      - pvaldes 3y ago
        > Farming of big fish like bluefin tuna is difficult I had seen fry of tuna breed on captivity in a tank. Will not happen soon. Breeding of Salmon is fully developed at a very sophisticated level.
  - progbits 3y ago
    The meat eating culture is so ingrained some people literally don't see this option, when it is the easiest and most obvious solution.
    - ricardobayes 3y ago
      As a plant-based eater, I wouldn't shame people for their dietary choices. Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. I'm already pretty pleased how it's commonplace now in the UK to have vegan options.
      - myshpa 3y ago
        > Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. Would you be as accepting to a wife-beater, child abuser, slaver, homophobe, etc ? > The meat eating culture is so ingrained some people literally don't see this option, when it is the easiest and most obvious solution. How is this shaming?
        ricardobayes 3y ago
        That's a straw-man argument
        myshpa 3y ago
        Consuming meat & dairy is not a necessity for maintaining human health. The production of meat and dairy is correlated with acts of violence such as forced impregnation, separation of mothers and calves, dehorning, castration, debeaking, (not-really-humane) slaughter, and violent mishandling. If you don't believe me, see https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch If we acknowledge that animals are sentient beings, capable of cognition, fear, and suffering, even able to play computer games and browse social media, and that they are subjected to conditions akin to enslavement, it's not a stretch to draw parallels between this and other forms of oppression such as slavery, sexual exploitation, and domestic abuse. All of these were, at some point, also considered normal and socially acceptable.
  - pvaldes 3y ago
    That ship has sailed long ago. The choices are either domestication and industrial breeding, or extinction.
- psunavy03 3y ago
  One of the memories I have growing up was going on a snorkeling trip to a coral reef in the Florida Keys with my Scout troop. The reef dropped off quickly enough that you could see some deepwater fish while still staying close enough to the boat and reef to be safe. The biggest other fish I saw were a big lazy grouper and a shark that I decided to swim the other direction from, but that didn't seem really enthused about going anywhere in a hurry. But I swear the bluefin tuna were like living torpedoes. Huge and FAST, like big underwater rockets.
ronnirradd 3y ago
Curious why not opt for a picture of a bluefin
- cratermoon 3y ago
  Because the story is about one specific tuna, Amelia?
  - slim 3y ago
    it's not
    - cratermoon 3y ago
      That's what's called a "literary device": a single individual is used as a microcosm for the whole. The story is about "Amelia" where "Amelia" represents all bluefin tuna. In that sense, the story is about Amelia. It's something that might not be clear to people for whom English is not their first language, but it's pretty common in literature.
catsarebetter 3y ago
There's a school of thought presented in David Chang's documentary where we're going to be one of the last generations to consume wild bluefin tuna. Because we've industrialized fishing them at this point. The financial incentives are too powerful to turn down, each one can come in at $20 to $5,000 Per Pound. A single tuna is tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands on the market. On the consumer side (CA/NY) anything Ahi Tuna-related is going to fly off the shelf, even with premium mark up prices. I'm not sure where we go from here. Maybe a shift in community values? It's trending higher and higher online too, which probably correlates with consumption - https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=ahi%20tuna&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=a...
- psunavy03 3y ago
  > There's a school of thought presented in David Chang's documentary where we're going to be one of the last generations to consume wild bluefin tuna. Because we've industrialized fishing them at this point. I'd like to see some stats to back this up, considering the IUCN has taken the bluefin off its "red list," and even a brief Wikipedia search seems to indicate that the recent application of regional fishing quotas is having its desired effect, though apparently some local populations are struggling.
  - 6c696e7578 3y ago
    Stats on the ocean are hard to measure, because, well, it isn't easy. However, as this documentary points out, there's so many reasons to not make people aware. I had no idea about halibut. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14152756/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14152756/ So many things I didn't appreciate, and this is probably the most important documentary to watch this decade.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      Also Cowspiracy, Dominion, Blackfish, The Game Changers, What the Health, Forks over knives ...
  - 3y ago
User23 3y ago
The tuna tank at the Monterey Bay aquarium is a must see.
- cb5r 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deadbolt 3y ago
    > We can protect endangered species by supporting habitat conservation – not animal prisons. Could, but we don't.
    - cb5r 3y ago
      Is this your personal opinion or the sad acknowledgement of humanity's negative impact on all non-human animals on this planet?
      - deadbolt 3y ago
        Well I suppose it's both. However I would say we're setting up for a very large negative impact on most animals on the planet, including humans. Your post was flagged (not by me) so I can't go back for exact context, but I do agree with you, zoos are pretty messed up. I feel like seeing wildlife, even in non-native habitats, may help encourage people to act to conserve that wildlife. Seeing a creature in real life is different than in a video. Edit: I went back and looked at your replies to other people. I will have to think about this more.
        cb5r 3y ago
        Oh, I didn't see it got flagged... Breaks my heart every time to see this happen when someone gives a voice to the voiceless. Then again, I would have disagreed with myself only 3 years ago, before I took some time to inform myself about ethics, especially in regard to non-human animals. Wish I'd have done it sooner...
  - 3y ago
myshpa 3y ago
The only way to preserve tuna is not to eat wild captured fish and farmed carnivore fish (they're fed bycatch, 1 kg of farmed fish upto 5kg of bycatch). Commercial fishing is extremely destructive industry, with huge amount of bycatch, no real oversight, no limits, and huge plastic pollution (46% of pacific garbage patch is fishing nets). https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts Bluefin tuna is one of the most expensive fish on the planet. Highest value of bluefin tuna: $3,100,000, conservation status: endangered Bluefin tunas are warm-blooded and can accelerate faster than a Ferrari Today only 3% of Pacific bluefin tuna remain A Mitsbishi subsidiary controls 40% of the worlds blue fin tuna https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/revealed-the-bid-to-corner-world-s-bluefin-tuna-market-1695479.html https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/revealed-t... Bluefin tuna frozen at -60C now could be sold in several years' time for astronomical sums if Atlantic bluefin becomes commercially extinct as forecast, a result of the near free-for-all enjoyed by the tuna fleet. https://fiskerforum.com/mitsubishi-hoards-frozen-bluefin-tuna/ https://fiskerforum.com/mitsubishi-hoards-frozen-bluefin-tun... It is observed that if the fish goes commercially extinct, the company is hopeful that it can turn a hefty profit from its frozen bluefin cache. Conservationists informed that legally commercial hauls are limited to 22,000 tons per year, but the actual catch is 60,000 tons, more than four times the maximum sustainable level. By its own estimates, Mitsubishi controls 35 to 40 percent of that stock.
- rex_lupi 3y ago
  Corporations controlling the existence of an entire species. Sickening.
  - Fatty123 3y ago
    Shouldn't they then be legally liable?
    - myshpa 3y ago
      They're operating in legal space, for sure. Buying fish from others and freezing it for later use is not illegal. The rules of the game need to change. However, imposing limits isn't the solution (we have them now, and they're ineffective and practically unenforceable).
henearkr 3y ago
Do your own health a favor and avoid ingesting huge amounts of mercury by avoiding eating bluefin tuna, while at the same time helping it not disappear from our oceans.

95 points by Petiver 3y ago

oxfeed65261 3y ago

https://archive.ph/W9UJ4 https://archive.ph/W9UJ4

jgwil2 3y ago

Beautiful animals. I hope we can find a way to coexist them.

NovaDudely 3y ago
The best way to co-exist with them is to leave them alone.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  The best way would be to learn to farm them. There's a reason there are more chickens on planet Earth than there are alligators or wombats. And it's very much the opposite of "leaving the chickens alone".
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Depends on your definition of "coexist". I for one would rather go extinct than exist as a chicken on a modern-day chicken farm. Of course, it's only the "lucky" female chickens that get to exist - the male chicks go straight to the shredder.
    - psunavy03 3y ago
      And that's a nice hasty generalization. Just because some farmed species are treated in ways you may deem unethical doesn't mean all farmed species must be treated unethically in order to farm them.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        I sympathize with him... the horrible things people do to cucumbers. People should start eating cruelty-free vegetables, like brown deciduous leaves already shed by the trees in fall.
      - flarg 3y ago
        Surely in order achieve maximum return the animal farming process must become industrialised which leads to unpleasant outcomes for the animals involved. From chickens to salmon, small animals are treated poorly. Fish farms are a case in point, they destroy the local environment as well as constrain the farmed fish in unnatural ways.
        Asooka 3y ago
        Which is why we set standards for animal treatment and heavily fine those who break them so it is not maximally profitable. Happy, well fed, cared for animals are the tastiest and healthiest option. The well being of the animal directly translates to the quality of its meat.
        myshpa 3y ago
        > Happy, well fed, cared for plants are the tastiest, healthiest and most sustainable option There, repaired it for you.
        YellOh 3y ago
        > Happy, well fed, cared for animals are the tastiest and healthiest Surely you don't think the masses buying big macs give half a crap? Meat just needs to be cheap and edible, and apparently animals raised in horrible conditions are the best candidates on both counts. ~99% of U.S. meat comes from factory farms.[0] [0] https://www.humanesociety.org/news/facts-about-factory-farms https://www.humanesociety.org/news/facts-about-factory-farms
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        Can you name one farmed species, that is getting treated in ethical ways?
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
      Fortunately for you, you're no where near being as delicious. That's the trick, remain awful-tasting.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        Are you sure about that? It seems to be rather a cultural taboo. Cannibalistic tribes did disagree.
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    The chickens we farm aren't the same as the red junglefowl that was domesticated 8000 years ago.
    - canucker2016 3y ago
      In 50 years, chicken breeds have changed greatly in size going from under 1kg to over 4kg. See https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/10/2/6875031/chickens-breeding-farming-boilers-giant https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/10/2/6875031/chickens-breedi...
  - cubefox 3y ago
    These are big fast animals which likely require a large space to swim around, much more than a cow. This makes "farms" difficult. Speaking of which, the wild ancestor of today's cows (the aurox) was hunted to extinction.
    - nkingsy 3y ago
      The big ones are already largely ranched. It’s the breeding that isn’t happening
      - cubefox 3y ago
        It's oddly similar to humans. When they are ranched in cities, their birth rates collapse. It’s the breeding that isn’t happening. Something about limited space dissuades us animals from procreation.
  - deltarholamda 3y ago
    Farming of big fish like bluefin tuna is difficult. They're still working on salmon, last I recall, as it turns out to be a lot more difficult than one would think. Farming catfish is an example of successful aquaculture, and even it isn't as simple as one would think. There was a point in the 90s (IIRC) where tiny farm ponds (1-2 acres or less) in the US were producing some huge percentage of all farmed catfish, 60-70% or thereabouts. When ethanol subsidies really kicked off, all the corn went to make faux gasoline, which meant it wasn't as available for fish feed, and the price of the feed closed the farm ponds, which were filled in and planted. (Probably with corn.) The Romans used to eat a lot of mullet, as this fish lived in their canals and waterways, and are easy to catch with nets. But the mullet is a terroir fish--it tastes like where it lives--and as the canals and waterways got gross, so did the fish. Mullet is thought of as poor people food now, there's a reason why on the Gulf Coast they're called "Biloxi bacon." But it would be a much simpler fish to farm, as long as you can keep the water clean.
    - pvaldes 3y ago
      > Farming of big fish like bluefin tuna is difficult I had seen fry of tuna breed on captivity in a tank. Will not happen soon. Breeding of Salmon is fully developed at a very sophisticated level.
- progbits 3y ago
  The meat eating culture is so ingrained some people literally don't see this option, when it is the easiest and most obvious solution.
  - ricardobayes 3y ago
    As a plant-based eater, I wouldn't shame people for their dietary choices. Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. I'm already pretty pleased how it's commonplace now in the UK to have vegan options.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. Would you be as accepting to a wife-beater, child abuser, slaver, homophobe, etc ? > The meat eating culture is so ingrained some people literally don't see this option, when it is the easiest and most obvious solution. How is this shaming?
      - ricardobayes 3y ago
        That's a straw-man argument
        myshpa 3y ago
        Consuming meat & dairy is not a necessity for maintaining human health. The production of meat and dairy is correlated with acts of violence such as forced impregnation, separation of mothers and calves, dehorning, castration, debeaking, (not-really-humane) slaughter, and violent mishandling. If you don't believe me, see https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch If we acknowledge that animals are sentient beings, capable of cognition, fear, and suffering, even able to play computer games and browse social media, and that they are subjected to conditions akin to enslavement, it's not a stretch to draw parallels between this and other forms of oppression such as slavery, sexual exploitation, and domestic abuse. All of these were, at some point, also considered normal and socially acceptable.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  That ship has sailed long ago. The choices are either domestication and industrial breeding, or extinction.
psunavy03 3y ago
One of the memories I have growing up was going on a snorkeling trip to a coral reef in the Florida Keys with my Scout troop. The reef dropped off quickly enough that you could see some deepwater fish while still staying close enough to the boat and reef to be safe. The biggest other fish I saw were a big lazy grouper and a shark that I decided to swim the other direction from, but that didn't seem really enthused about going anywhere in a hurry. But I swear the bluefin tuna were like living torpedoes. Huge and FAST, like big underwater rockets.

ronnirradd 3y ago

Curious why not opt for a picture of a bluefin

cratermoon 3y ago
Because the story is about one specific tuna, Amelia?
- slim 3y ago
  it's not
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    That's what's called a "literary device": a single individual is used as a microcosm for the whole. The story is about "Amelia" where "Amelia" represents all bluefin tuna. In that sense, the story is about Amelia. It's something that might not be clear to people for whom English is not their first language, but it's pretty common in literature.

catsarebetter 3y ago

There's a school of thought presented in David Chang's documentary where we're going to be one of the last generations to consume wild bluefin tuna. Because we've industrialized fishing them at this point. The financial incentives are too powerful to turn down, each one can come in at $20 to $5,000 Per Pound. A single tuna is tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousands on the market. On the consumer side (CA/NY) anything Ahi Tuna-related is going to fly off the shelf, even with premium mark up prices. I'm not sure where we go from here. Maybe a shift in community values? It's trending higher and higher online too, which probably correlates with consumption - https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=ahi%20tuna&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=a...

psunavy03 3y ago
> There's a school of thought presented in David Chang's documentary where we're going to be one of the last generations to consume wild bluefin tuna. Because we've industrialized fishing them at this point. I'd like to see some stats to back this up, considering the IUCN has taken the bluefin off its "red list," and even a brief Wikipedia search seems to indicate that the recent application of regional fishing quotas is having its desired effect, though apparently some local populations are struggling.
- 6c696e7578 3y ago
  Stats on the ocean are hard to measure, because, well, it isn't easy. However, as this documentary points out, there's so many reasons to not make people aware. I had no idea about halibut. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14152756/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt14152756/ So many things I didn't appreciate, and this is probably the most important documentary to watch this decade.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    Also Cowspiracy, Dominion, Blackfish, The Game Changers, What the Health, Forks over knives ...
- 3y ago

User23 3y ago

The tuna tank at the Monterey Bay aquarium is a must see.

cb5r 3y ago
[flagged]
- deadbolt 3y ago
  > We can protect endangered species by supporting habitat conservation – not animal prisons. Could, but we don't.
  - cb5r 3y ago
    Is this your personal opinion or the sad acknowledgement of humanity's negative impact on all non-human animals on this planet?
    - deadbolt 3y ago
      Well I suppose it's both. However I would say we're setting up for a very large negative impact on most animals on the planet, including humans. Your post was flagged (not by me) so I can't go back for exact context, but I do agree with you, zoos are pretty messed up. I feel like seeing wildlife, even in non-native habitats, may help encourage people to act to conserve that wildlife. Seeing a creature in real life is different than in a video. Edit: I went back and looked at your replies to other people. I will have to think about this more.
      - cb5r 3y ago
        Oh, I didn't see it got flagged... Breaks my heart every time to see this happen when someone gives a voice to the voiceless. Then again, I would have disagreed with myself only 3 years ago, before I took some time to inform myself about ethics, especially in regard to non-human animals. Wish I'd have done it sooner...
- 3y ago

myshpa 3y ago

The only way to preserve tuna is not to eat wild captured fish and farmed carnivore fish (they're fed bycatch, 1 kg of farmed fish upto 5kg of bycatch). Commercial fishing is extremely destructive industry, with huge amount of bycatch, no real oversight, no limits, and huge plastic pollution (46% of pacific garbage patch is fishing nets). https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts Bluefin tuna is one of the most expensive fish on the planet. Highest value of bluefin tuna: $3,100,000, conservation status: endangered Bluefin tunas are warm-blooded and can accelerate faster than a Ferrari Today only 3% of Pacific bluefin tuna remain A Mitsbishi subsidiary controls 40% of the worlds blue fin tuna https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/revealed-the-bid-to-corner-world-s-bluefin-tuna-market-1695479.html https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/revealed-t... Bluefin tuna frozen at -60C now could be sold in several years' time for astronomical sums if Atlantic bluefin becomes commercially extinct as forecast, a result of the near free-for-all enjoyed by the tuna fleet. https://fiskerforum.com/mitsubishi-hoards-frozen-bluefin-tuna/ https://fiskerforum.com/mitsubishi-hoards-frozen-bluefin-tun... It is observed that if the fish goes commercially extinct, the company is hopeful that it can turn a hefty profit from its frozen bluefin cache. Conservationists informed that legally commercial hauls are limited to 22,000 tons per year, but the actual catch is 60,000 tons, more than four times the maximum sustainable level. By its own estimates, Mitsubishi controls 35 to 40 percent of that stock.

rex_lupi 3y ago
Corporations controlling the existence of an entire species. Sickening.
- Fatty123 3y ago
  Shouldn't they then be legally liable?
  - myshpa 3y ago
    They're operating in legal space, for sure. Buying fish from others and freezing it for later use is not illegal. The rules of the game need to change. However, imposing limits isn't the solution (we have them now, and they're ineffective and practically unenforceable).

henearkr 3y ago

Do your own health a favor and avoid ingesting huge amounts of mercury by avoiding eating bluefin tuna, while at the same time helping it not disappear from our oceans.