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I get sad every time I return back to America from Asia because of how small the public infrastructure is in many parts of America compared to Asia. If anyone

I get sad every time I return back to America from Asia because of how small the public infrastructure is in many parts of America compared to Asia. If anyone has lived or at least visited places like Tokyo, Japan or Shanghai, China, you probably understand what I am referring to.

samstave 3y ago
I have maintained that any US Public Transportation employee with any amount of agency/authority should be required to go to SEA (singapore, HK, Shanghai, Tokyo) and be required to go to meetings which are far from their hotel but they must get there via public transport only... This will make their requests for more money/raises/etc seem absolutely insane when you compare what these countries/cities/agencies do WRT to transporting millions of people efficiently every single day - and not to mention just how clean such systems are. When you go through stations in HK - you see well-uniformed cleaning folks all over the place.
- robjan 3y ago
  HK has an interesting business model in that the MTR is majority owned by the government and the government grants the land on top of train stations to MTR. MTR then generally builds shopping malls, offices and residential developments e.g LOHAS park, there making it a property company which operates (very profitable) rails between its properties. Hence, the average person not only travels on the MTR but also spends money at MTR Malls and may live and/or work in an MTR property. MTR corporation also provides consultancy services and even runs other railways in other countries e.g the Elizabeth Line on the London Underground.
giovannibonetti 3y ago
Population density makes a huge difference. The more people live in a city, the more funds the government has to invest to get a better transportation system. In general, population density in East Asia is far higher than in the US.
- tsudounym 3y ago
  This is a chicken and egg problem, stop making excuses for Western governments. Nearly all US cities had streetcars and dense walkable downtowns. There are pictures of this. They were destroyed in the 1950s due to pressure from car/oil lobbies, as well as eager house buyers who wanted cheap FHA loans. (Only available to whites) Europe is not immune either, they would've followed the US's footsteps entirely if it weren't for the 1973 oil shock, which hit them harder than the US.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > They were destroyed in the 1950s due to pressure from car/oil lobbies Popular explanation but largely false. They were destroyed because people quit using them.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      But it's far more satisfying to blame some change you don't like on $EVILCORP than a more complicated narrative that revolves around people as a whole preferred something different so it didn't really make sense for government/a company to keep pouring money into a pit to keep a small minority happy. The story often goes that someone destroyed a fully operational system for profits when in fact the system was badly deteriorated and not really used a lot.
      - tsudounym 3y ago
        Do you REALLY think gasoline subsidies and government backed 97% LTV mortgages is a free market? People were coaxed out of cities with very generous subsidies as well as race baiting (redlining)
        ghaff 3y ago
        People moved out to the suburbs for a lot of reasons--not least of which was the post-war baby boom. The US government certainly didn't discourage it (though they were arguably pursuing policies the majority of the population wanted) and the exodus added fire to a self-reinforcing cycle of urban problems (including race-related ones)which lasted at least through the 1980s. And arguably we could see movement out of at least some cities again. I'm not especially pro-suburbia--I live in an exurban/almost rural location. But I think it's perfectly understandable why many people wouldn't live in a city given a choice which they increasing had post-WWII in the US.
ghaff 3y ago
Asia is also home to cities with some of the most congested sprawl with mediocre (at best) public transportation in the world. Tokyo and Shanghai are great. Somewhere like Jakarta less so.
nashashmi 3y ago
I hope you are not comparing American suburbs to Asian urban communities. This is a common misconception among immigrants that they compare commuting opportunities of suburbia to urban cities in Asia.
charlieyu1 3y ago
Last time I went to Japan, they had announcements of apologies about severe delays. The delay was less than 5 minutes. Today I'm stuck on a tram for an hour and the tram company did not even tell us what happened or when would we be unstuck.

samstave 3y ago

I have maintained that any US Public Transportation employee with any amount of agency/authority should be required to go to SEA (singapore, HK, Shanghai, Tokyo) and be required to go to meetings which are far from their hotel but they must get there via public transport only... This will make their requests for more money/raises/etc seem absolutely insane when you compare what these countries/cities/agencies do WRT to transporting millions of people efficiently every single day - and not to mention just how clean such systems are. When you go through stations in HK - you see well-uniformed cleaning folks all over the place.

robjan 3y ago
HK has an interesting business model in that the MTR is majority owned by the government and the government grants the land on top of train stations to MTR. MTR then generally builds shopping malls, offices and residential developments e.g LOHAS park, there making it a property company which operates (very profitable) rails between its properties. Hence, the average person not only travels on the MTR but also spends money at MTR Malls and may live and/or work in an MTR property. MTR corporation also provides consultancy services and even runs other railways in other countries e.g the Elizabeth Line on the London Underground.

giovannibonetti 3y ago

Population density makes a huge difference. The more people live in a city, the more funds the government has to invest to get a better transportation system. In general, population density in East Asia is far higher than in the US.

tsudounym 3y ago
This is a chicken and egg problem, stop making excuses for Western governments. Nearly all US cities had streetcars and dense walkable downtowns. There are pictures of this. They were destroyed in the 1950s due to pressure from car/oil lobbies, as well as eager house buyers who wanted cheap FHA loans. (Only available to whites) Europe is not immune either, they would've followed the US's footsteps entirely if it weren't for the 1973 oil shock, which hit them harder than the US.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > They were destroyed in the 1950s due to pressure from car/oil lobbies Popular explanation but largely false. They were destroyed because people quit using them.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    But it's far more satisfying to blame some change you don't like on $EVILCORP than a more complicated narrative that revolves around people as a whole preferred something different so it didn't really make sense for government/a company to keep pouring money into a pit to keep a small minority happy. The story often goes that someone destroyed a fully operational system for profits when in fact the system was badly deteriorated and not really used a lot.
    - tsudounym 3y ago
      Do you REALLY think gasoline subsidies and government backed 97% LTV mortgages is a free market? People were coaxed out of cities with very generous subsidies as well as race baiting (redlining)
      - ghaff 3y ago
        People moved out to the suburbs for a lot of reasons--not least of which was the post-war baby boom. The US government certainly didn't discourage it (though they were arguably pursuing policies the majority of the population wanted) and the exodus added fire to a self-reinforcing cycle of urban problems (including race-related ones)which lasted at least through the 1980s. And arguably we could see movement out of at least some cities again. I'm not especially pro-suburbia--I live in an exurban/almost rural location. But I think it's perfectly understandable why many people wouldn't live in a city given a choice which they increasing had post-WWII in the US.

ghaff 3y ago

Asia is also home to cities with some of the most congested sprawl with mediocre (at best) public transportation in the world. Tokyo and Shanghai are great. Somewhere like Jakarta less so.

nashashmi 3y ago

I hope you are not comparing American suburbs to Asian urban communities. This is a common misconception among immigrants that they compare commuting opportunities of suburbia to urban cities in Asia.

charlieyu1 3y ago

Last time I went to Japan, they had announcements of apologies about severe delays. The delay was less than 5 minutes. Today I'm stuck on a tram for an hour and the tram company did not even tell us what happened or when would we be unstuck.