4 ms·

So it's about the cartels now, huh? And you're really concerned by wellbeing and "life satisfaction" that you want to put people in jail because they consume a

So it's about the cartels now, huh? And you're really concerned by wellbeing and "life satisfaction" that you want to put people in jail because they consume a substance you don't. Prohibition style thinking. Arguably, The most dangerous criminal organizations in the world are probably the security agencies and forces which cause untold damage around the world and, incidentally, have ties with druglords like in Afghanistan. But I'm sure you'd support those over the individual's choice of what to do with their body regardless of what your Religious like belief that's you should get to decide what fulfills someone's life. Maybe reading certain books is something we don't need, right? The insult at the end just exposes you further. Drug cartels exist due to those things being illegal, not the other way around, but stay classy.

pif 3y ago
> Drug cartels exist due to those things being illegal Drug cartels exist due to those things being illegal AND people keeping giving money to them.
- isaacremuant 3y ago
  Because you force their hand to not have another choice. You removed the choice. I love how authortiarians think that they'll get exactly their way. Suddenly laws of supply and demand disappear and they can shape the world at their pleasure.
  - pif 3y ago
    > I love how authortiarians Authoritarians? I'm talking about democracies! Where most people want marijuana, it gets legal. Where it doesn't, it's because people at large don't want it. That's it! People can protest, and we can and must discuss, but pouring money in organized crime for a non-need is not justifiable.
    - dns_snek 3y ago
      > Where it doesn't, it's because people at large don't want it. That's it! "People at large don't want", after the government spent decades brainwashing the population about the supposed dangers of drugs with sustained propaganda? By that standard North Korea and Russia are fully democratic countries, too, the population just happens to support things that their governments are doing!
      - pif 3y ago
        > after the government spent decades brainwashing ... Please, not that rhetoric again! Do you even know what a democracy is?
    - 542354234235 3y ago
      >Where most people want marijuana, it gets legal. Where it doesn't, it's because people at large don't want it. That's it! Or in a free society, people that want it, get it. People that don't, choose not to get it. Authoritarian is saying "I don't like it, so I will force you not to have it". The right to control one's body is a pretty fundamental freedom. You aren't supposed to be able to vote to take away the freedom of others. In an extreme example, you can't vote to make slavery legal. Laws can be immoral and unethical, and breaking those laws does not automatically make the law breaker unjustified.
pif 3y ago
> you want to put people in jail because they consume a substance you don't. No, I'm not a priori against illegal substances, and I'm open to discuss legalizing them. But if the only people asking for their legalization are idiots who keep considering their consumption innocent, while funding the author of heinous crimes, then I don't expect a very interesting discussion. On the other side, when a doctor proposes marijuana to help their patients, well, that may be worth changing our laws to accommodate.
- isaacremuant 3y ago
  How about you stop insulting? You're making it very tempting to just call you whateve you call others. You're not about an interesting discussion but a disingenuous strawman. And your strawman is absolutely annoying, seeking some sort of ridiculous purity. I don't consume any drugs (but I'm not saying I won't ever, just that I'm not interested at this point) but I'm still for this so there you go. You even got your pure example. Google Glenn greenwald debates bush drug Czar on war on drugs. It addresses your strawmen. In any case, you've shown to not have arguments but strawmen and ad Homs and the only thing you consider is what is already legal. Worst of all is your righteousness. You don't care about cartels or people or you wouldn't focus on "idiots who take drugs". In any case. GG covers it all pretty nicely. Quick Edit: let's not even talk about the way politicians and powerful people can use drugs without the same consequences as normal or poorer people.
  - pif 3y ago
    > How about you stop insulting? I'd like to point out a very important detail: I'm not insulting people for wanting to enjoy themselves. No, not at all! But people are idiots when they don't see the connection between the dollars they pay for their fix and the monstrosities that are committed with those same dollars. And, if they do see the connection and do not care, that they are criminals. I do understand and justify, though, those people who use marijuana for medical conditions (physical and/or mental pain) and cannot find it legally.
    - knewter 3y ago

pif 3y ago

> Drug cartels exist due to those things being illegal Drug cartels exist due to those things being illegal AND people keeping giving money to them.

isaacremuant 3y ago
Because you force their hand to not have another choice. You removed the choice. I love how authortiarians think that they'll get exactly their way. Suddenly laws of supply and demand disappear and they can shape the world at their pleasure.
- pif 3y ago
  > I love how authortiarians Authoritarians? I'm talking about democracies! Where most people want marijuana, it gets legal. Where it doesn't, it's because people at large don't want it. That's it! People can protest, and we can and must discuss, but pouring money in organized crime for a non-need is not justifiable.
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    > Where it doesn't, it's because people at large don't want it. That's it! "People at large don't want", after the government spent decades brainwashing the population about the supposed dangers of drugs with sustained propaganda? By that standard North Korea and Russia are fully democratic countries, too, the population just happens to support things that their governments are doing!
    - pif 3y ago
      > after the government spent decades brainwashing ... Please, not that rhetoric again! Do you even know what a democracy is?
  - 542354234235 3y ago
    >Where most people want marijuana, it gets legal. Where it doesn't, it's because people at large don't want it. That's it! Or in a free society, people that want it, get it. People that don't, choose not to get it. Authoritarian is saying "I don't like it, so I will force you not to have it". The right to control one's body is a pretty fundamental freedom. You aren't supposed to be able to vote to take away the freedom of others. In an extreme example, you can't vote to make slavery legal. Laws can be immoral and unethical, and breaking those laws does not automatically make the law breaker unjustified.

pif 3y ago

> you want to put people in jail because they consume a substance you don't. No, I'm not a priori against illegal substances, and I'm open to discuss legalizing them. But if the only people asking for their legalization are idiots who keep considering their consumption innocent, while funding the author of heinous crimes, then I don't expect a very interesting discussion. On the other side, when a doctor proposes marijuana to help their patients, well, that may be worth changing our laws to accommodate.

isaacremuant 3y ago
How about you stop insulting? You're making it very tempting to just call you whateve you call others. You're not about an interesting discussion but a disingenuous strawman. And your strawman is absolutely annoying, seeking some sort of ridiculous purity. I don't consume any drugs (but I'm not saying I won't ever, just that I'm not interested at this point) but I'm still for this so there you go. You even got your pure example. Google Glenn greenwald debates bush drug Czar on war on drugs. It addresses your strawmen. In any case, you've shown to not have arguments but strawmen and ad Homs and the only thing you consider is what is already legal. Worst of all is your righteousness. You don't care about cartels or people or you wouldn't focus on "idiots who take drugs". In any case. GG covers it all pretty nicely. Quick Edit: let's not even talk about the way politicians and powerful people can use drugs without the same consequences as normal or poorer people.
- pif 3y ago
  > How about you stop insulting? I'd like to point out a very important detail: I'm not insulting people for wanting to enjoy themselves. No, not at all! But people are idiots when they don't see the connection between the dollars they pay for their fix and the monstrosities that are committed with those same dollars. And, if they do see the connection and do not care, that they are criminals. I do understand and justify, though, those people who use marijuana for medical conditions (physical and/or mental pain) and cannot find it legally.
  - knewter 3y ago