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This is why I think that it is perhaps beneficial to not completely remove religion, but replace it with something that is more aligned to the 21st century. Let

This is why I think that it is perhaps beneficial to not completely remove religion, but replace it with something that is more aligned to the 21st century. Let's be honest, humans are very flawed and prone to succumb to religious thinking; regardless of how smart/dumb you are. Superstitious thinking can arise from simple day to day observation. So it is much better to fill in the void with something dull like "do good, because mother Gaia watches over you" than to let some random beliefs to fill it. I personally belief that the self-introspection, consciousness-obsessed cultures like Hindu and Buddhism actually have one. Consciousness is the one thing in this world that is actually mysterious. So let's start mysticism from there.

junofan 3y ago
Like it or not, the replacement is politics. Atheists have edged out Jews as the most politically active group in the US, even when controlling for education. Because they donate money to politicians at incredible rates, expect more messaging aimed at this group.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  that's pretty messed up take from parent's suggestion... and I don't agree a zilch, politics cater to other aspects of our (often irrational) needs compared to what religions aim for
  - worrycue 3y ago
    > politics cater to other aspects of our (often irrational) needs compared to what religions aim for It’s a team to bat for and even comes with its own dogma for you to blindly believe in. Usually lead by charismatic leaders providing/promising simple and easy to understand explanations/solutions to complex problems. To quote H L Mencken, “Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.”
idoubtit 3y ago
What's the point if this mysticism doesn't make "better" people than any random superstition or religion? I fear it's more dangerous than most basic superstitions. I mean, these "self-introspection, consciousness-obsessed cultures like Hindu and Buddhism" are a source of hatred and violence. The Hindu majority is India is on this brutal trend. And in Burma-Birmania-Myanmar, the Buddhist population was almost unanimous in supporting the discrimination against muslims and the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya. People feel they belong to a religion and that those who do not are unenlightened strangers. The phenomena is well known and studied: religion leads to intolerance. Astrology is stupid, but at least it does not create that feeling of community, so it won't spread intolerance and xenophobia.
- copperx 3y ago
  Regarding the last point, that's true. Notice how there aren't any forums/communities/Discord channels centered on a single astrological sign. It would be amusing though, to stumble upon a, say, Pisces forum where members try to figure out their behavior.
- richardw 3y ago
  I’d be surprised if it’s not co-opted to do so. We saw what happened with vaccines: global tribes with half-baked ideas all swirling around crazy leaders. Only way it’s not going to be co-opted is if it can’t be due to some fundamental reason.
- anon-3988 3y ago
  > I mean, these "self-introspection, consciousness-obsessed cultures like Hindu and Buddhism" are a source of hatred and violence. The Hindu majority is India is on this brutal trend. And in Burma-Birmania-Myanmar, the Buddhist population was almost unanimous in supporting the discrimination against muslims and the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya. People feel they belong to a religion and that those who do not are unenlightened strangers. The phenomena is well known and studied: religion leads to intolerance. That is why it is important to fill these void with fluff. But that fluff requires some mythos otherwise it wouldn't hold the fluff together. There's a subset of these 2 religions that doesn't require you to believe in anything aside from the fact that "consciousness exist". However, this concept is quite hard for common folk to grasp. This is why I think that it is important to create a layer on top of this that the masses can feed unto. The problem with using astrology as the basis for religion is that it doesn't correspond to reality at all. Simple statistical analysis would yield weird results that doesn't match with reality. How do you reconcile being bad at something X despite being born at month Y that supposedly makes you better at X. Or why does X today when my horoscope is Y?
mavhc 3y ago
Organised Religion is good for people, because it keeps them from believing even crazier ideas, and still tells you to see a doctor when you're sick Most of the people who go to Organised Religion don't really believe in God, they're just in it for the tea and biscuits, ie it's a social club. If you really believed in God and Heaven you'd become a monk or nun, logically you'd spend your finite life maximising your chance of infinite reward Without Organised Religion you get antivax people, way more dangerous than people who spend 500 years building a cool building
- anon-3988 3y ago
  I agree, but is it important for the "religion" to be effectively neutered. >If you really believed in God and Heaven you'd become a monk or nun, logically you'd spend your finite life maximising your chance of infinite reward I think the story is not as simple as that. The problem is that people actually _do_ believe in Heaven/Hell and they _wish_ that they have the devotion to match their faith. That is to say that people wish they can become a nun or a monk. Which is why when people do become nun/monk/suicide bombers, they don't condemn them but wish they are brave enough to do it themselves (why not every religious person is suicidal) or even admit to wanting to do it (why it doesn't show up as much in polls).
  - mavhc 3y ago
    You had to patch the religion to avoid the suicide bug, telling people that it was bad. You only want really old religions that have been around long enough they're not doing anything mad, but most people aren't going around doing mad things if they have a comfortable life, they just need someone to tell them they're on the right path, people crave leaders
- chopsuey5540 3y ago
  I’m far from being antivax but if you look at the thousands / millions of deaths caused by religious wars and / or strict societal control in history and up to today I’m not sure I agree with your statement that antivax people are way more dangerous than organized religion.
atq2119 3y ago
To put it succinctly: Culture abhors a vacuum.
ecshafer 3y ago
Thankfully you are here to dictate what is and isn't an acceptable 21st century belief.

junofan 3y ago

Like it or not, the replacement is politics. Atheists have edged out Jews as the most politically active group in the US, even when controlling for education. Because they donate money to politicians at incredible rates, expect more messaging aimed at this group.

saiya-jin 3y ago
that's pretty messed up take from parent's suggestion... and I don't agree a zilch, politics cater to other aspects of our (often irrational) needs compared to what religions aim for
- worrycue 3y ago
  > politics cater to other aspects of our (often irrational) needs compared to what religions aim for It’s a team to bat for and even comes with its own dogma for you to blindly believe in. Usually lead by charismatic leaders providing/promising simple and easy to understand explanations/solutions to complex problems. To quote H L Mencken, “Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.”

idoubtit 3y ago

What's the point if this mysticism doesn't make "better" people than any random superstition or religion? I fear it's more dangerous than most basic superstitions. I mean, these "self-introspection, consciousness-obsessed cultures like Hindu and Buddhism" are a source of hatred and violence. The Hindu majority is India is on this brutal trend. And in Burma-Birmania-Myanmar, the Buddhist population was almost unanimous in supporting the discrimination against muslims and the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya. People feel they belong to a religion and that those who do not are unenlightened strangers. The phenomena is well known and studied: religion leads to intolerance. Astrology is stupid, but at least it does not create that feeling of community, so it won't spread intolerance and xenophobia.

copperx 3y ago
Regarding the last point, that's true. Notice how there aren't any forums/communities/Discord channels centered on a single astrological sign. It would be amusing though, to stumble upon a, say, Pisces forum where members try to figure out their behavior.
richardw 3y ago
I’d be surprised if it’s not co-opted to do so. We saw what happened with vaccines: global tribes with half-baked ideas all swirling around crazy leaders. Only way it’s not going to be co-opted is if it can’t be due to some fundamental reason.
anon-3988 3y ago
> I mean, these "self-introspection, consciousness-obsessed cultures like Hindu and Buddhism" are a source of hatred and violence. The Hindu majority is India is on this brutal trend. And in Burma-Birmania-Myanmar, the Buddhist population was almost unanimous in supporting the discrimination against muslims and the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya. People feel they belong to a religion and that those who do not are unenlightened strangers. The phenomena is well known and studied: religion leads to intolerance. That is why it is important to fill these void with fluff. But that fluff requires some mythos otherwise it wouldn't hold the fluff together. There's a subset of these 2 religions that doesn't require you to believe in anything aside from the fact that "consciousness exist". However, this concept is quite hard for common folk to grasp. This is why I think that it is important to create a layer on top of this that the masses can feed unto. The problem with using astrology as the basis for religion is that it doesn't correspond to reality at all. Simple statistical analysis would yield weird results that doesn't match with reality. How do you reconcile being bad at something X despite being born at month Y that supposedly makes you better at X. Or why does X today when my horoscope is Y?

mavhc 3y ago

Organised Religion is good for people, because it keeps them from believing even crazier ideas, and still tells you to see a doctor when you're sick Most of the people who go to Organised Religion don't really believe in God, they're just in it for the tea and biscuits, ie it's a social club. If you really believed in God and Heaven you'd become a monk or nun, logically you'd spend your finite life maximising your chance of infinite reward Without Organised Religion you get antivax people, way more dangerous than people who spend 500 years building a cool building

anon-3988 3y ago
I agree, but is it important for the "religion" to be effectively neutered. >If you really believed in God and Heaven you'd become a monk or nun, logically you'd spend your finite life maximising your chance of infinite reward I think the story is not as simple as that. The problem is that people actually _do_ believe in Heaven/Hell and they _wish_ that they have the devotion to match their faith. That is to say that people wish they can become a nun or a monk. Which is why when people do become nun/monk/suicide bombers, they don't condemn them but wish they are brave enough to do it themselves (why not every religious person is suicidal) or even admit to wanting to do it (why it doesn't show up as much in polls).
- mavhc 3y ago
  You had to patch the religion to avoid the suicide bug, telling people that it was bad. You only want really old religions that have been around long enough they're not doing anything mad, but most people aren't going around doing mad things if they have a comfortable life, they just need someone to tell them they're on the right path, people crave leaders
chopsuey5540 3y ago
I’m far from being antivax but if you look at the thousands / millions of deaths caused by religious wars and / or strict societal control in history and up to today I’m not sure I agree with your statement that antivax people are way more dangerous than organized religion.

atq2119 3y ago

To put it succinctly: Culture abhors a vacuum.

ecshafer 3y ago

Thankfully you are here to dictate what is and isn't an acceptable 21st century belief.