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I feel like they’ve lost my trust in the climate movement. I sincerely believe that it’s a small kernel of truth surrounded by lies and degrowth ideology. I wan

I feel like they’ve lost my trust in the climate movement. I sincerely believe that it’s a small kernel of truth surrounded by lies and degrowth ideology. I want to live in a clean, beautiful planet; and share many things with climate activists. However, I can’t get behind the insane push for green washing, ESG, climate alarmicism, JustStopOil loonies, etc. This is not science, it’s ideological activism of the worst kind: to regress as a human species. The same group of people that keep drumming climate change have other opinions that are predictable: depopulation, degrowth, reducing quality of life, social justice fundamentalism (Tim Urban’e term), etc all stemming from one political axis point located at the top-left corner. I wouldn’t be so against it if it didn’t have an authoritarian aspect to it. Soon you’ll have California mandated carbon budget. Fuck that.

aa1234556 3y ago
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- slater 3y ago
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- sverona 3y ago
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- flangola7 3y ago
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DangitBobby 3y ago
Yeah, this attitude is pretty much exactly why it's already over.
anon84873628 3y ago
Well if there were any contrasting ideological factions that accepted the reality of climate change, we might have a diversity of viewpoints and solutions. As it stands only the "extremes" have been truly taking it seriously. I'm sorry they haven't been able to wrap the kernel in something more palatable to you. If you want the "movement" to be different then be a part of it.
- systemvoltage 3y ago
  If lies are not palatable to me, sorry, not my problem.
  - dTal 3y ago
    What lies? We could do with some specifics.
kmeisthax 3y ago
>all stemming from one political axis point located at the top-left corner I'll say the quiet part out loud: you're worried about the authoritarian left - or, as the libertarian left calls them, tankies. Green washing and ESG aren't an authleft project. They were invented by corporate interests looking to avoid brand damage, so at best we could say it's a right-libertarian project. Insamuch as people apply social justice frameworks to environmental causes, it is to say that global warming is going to kill underprivileged people first and faster than wealthy people. Depopulation (aka "overpopulation") was the authright framing of environmentalism: we have too many mouths to feed and we need to stop making more, and conveniently for us it just so happens to be some other people's fault. These viewpoints are irreconcilable; in fact, I would argue the social justice environmental view is specifically a response to the authright trying to rehabituate themselves as environmental crusaders rather than industrial murderers. I object to calling JustStopOil loonies for the same reason why I don't call BuzzFeed loonies for pioneering clickbait. Smearing black paint on art is their tactic, not their goal. As far as I can tell there isn't really a libertarian (left or right) answer to global warming. Greenwashing and ESG won't actually fix the problem, because the problem is a public choice problem. Western standards of living are built on infrastructure that only loves oil and rejects all else. Everyone else wants western standards of living and is copying the same infrastructure to get it.
- systemvoltage 3y ago
  > Green washing and ESG aren't an authleft project. They were invented by corporate interests looking to avoid brand damage, so at best we could say it's a right-libertarian project. This is naive I think. The same crowd goes to Davos every year. It’s far deeper and insidious than “we don’t want to pay for lawyer/lawsuits”. The real quiet part is this: they want their genetic lineage to have better resources than others. Usually, group dynamics (tribe) provides a better overall outcome for their kids. The fracturing of unity has led to a bunch of elite clans to seize Gov power through proxy of social justice, climate change, etc.
  - kmeisthax 3y ago
    Ok, so some of them are also auth-right. One might argue further that the political compass is not topologically flat, and that at the extremes right-authoritarianism and right-libertarianism are the same ideology. After all, what's the difference between today's brutally authoritarian regimes and a large corporation that owns monopolies on everything? It's all abusable power. I also object to discussing this in terms of "genetic lineage". Humans are mesaoptimizers, none of our intelligence gives a shit about what evolution gives a shit about. Social justice was something that the economic elites were able to appropriate, Rebel Sell style, because nothing about capitalism forbids irony. However, there is nothing left-wing at Davos. They have no intent on actually bringing social justice about when it contradicts the moral foundations of their ownership. So their support boils down to "black lesbian dollars are still green" and rainbow logos, and not "let's stop destroying the world and impoverishing people for profit".
sixQuarks 3y ago
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right

aa1234556 3y ago

[flagged]

slater 3y ago
[flagged]
sverona 3y ago
[flagged]
flangola7 3y ago
[flagged]

DangitBobby 3y ago

Yeah, this attitude is pretty much exactly why it's already over.

anon84873628 3y ago

Well if there were any contrasting ideological factions that accepted the reality of climate change, we might have a diversity of viewpoints and solutions. As it stands only the "extremes" have been truly taking it seriously. I'm sorry they haven't been able to wrap the kernel in something more palatable to you. If you want the "movement" to be different then be a part of it.

systemvoltage 3y ago
If lies are not palatable to me, sorry, not my problem.
- dTal 3y ago
  What lies? We could do with some specifics.

kmeisthax 3y ago

>all stemming from one political axis point located at the top-left corner I'll say the quiet part out loud: you're worried about the authoritarian left - or, as the libertarian left calls them, tankies. Green washing and ESG aren't an authleft project. They were invented by corporate interests looking to avoid brand damage, so at best we could say it's a right-libertarian project. Insamuch as people apply social justice frameworks to environmental causes, it is to say that global warming is going to kill underprivileged people first and faster than wealthy people. Depopulation (aka "overpopulation") was the authright framing of environmentalism: we have too many mouths to feed and we need to stop making more, and conveniently for us it just so happens to be some other people's fault. These viewpoints are irreconcilable; in fact, I would argue the social justice environmental view is specifically a response to the authright trying to rehabituate themselves as environmental crusaders rather than industrial murderers. I object to calling JustStopOil loonies for the same reason why I don't call BuzzFeed loonies for pioneering clickbait. Smearing black paint on art is their tactic, not their goal. As far as I can tell there isn't really a libertarian (left or right) answer to global warming. Greenwashing and ESG won't actually fix the problem, because the problem is a public choice problem. Western standards of living are built on infrastructure that only loves oil and rejects all else. Everyone else wants western standards of living and is copying the same infrastructure to get it.

systemvoltage 3y ago
> Green washing and ESG aren't an authleft project. They were invented by corporate interests looking to avoid brand damage, so at best we could say it's a right-libertarian project. This is naive I think. The same crowd goes to Davos every year. It’s far deeper and insidious than “we don’t want to pay for lawyer/lawsuits”. The real quiet part is this: they want their genetic lineage to have better resources than others. Usually, group dynamics (tribe) provides a better overall outcome for their kids. The fracturing of unity has led to a bunch of elite clans to seize Gov power through proxy of social justice, climate change, etc.
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Ok, so some of them are also auth-right. One might argue further that the political compass is not topologically flat, and that at the extremes right-authoritarianism and right-libertarianism are the same ideology. After all, what's the difference between today's brutally authoritarian regimes and a large corporation that owns monopolies on everything? It's all abusable power. I also object to discussing this in terms of "genetic lineage". Humans are mesaoptimizers, none of our intelligence gives a shit about what evolution gives a shit about. Social justice was something that the economic elites were able to appropriate, Rebel Sell style, because nothing about capitalism forbids irony. However, there is nothing left-wing at Davos. They have no intent on actually bringing social justice about when it contradicts the moral foundations of their ownership. So their support boils down to "black lesbian dollars are still green" and rainbow logos, and not "let's stop destroying the world and impoverishing people for profit".

sixQuarks 3y ago

You’re getting downvoted but you’re right