4 ms·

Am I wrong in assuming that Vupen's customers are bad people (for values of spam, trojans, bot-net, phishing bad)? I'm trying to think of why else they wouldn'

Am I wrong in assuming that Vupen's customers are bad people (for values of spam, trojans, bot-net, phishing bad)? I'm trying to think of why else they wouldn't disclose the protected mode bypass error, but instead keep it "private for our customers".

ward 15y ago
I thought that too, at first, but it seemed to blatantly illegal to believe. Going by their site, it's mostly for government agencies against other agencies?[1] I'm not proficient enough at law to comment on the legalities of it. Another possibility I had in mind is that they want to get paid by people wanting to fix this vulnerability on their systems. eg, company X will have to come to them if they want their IE browsers to receive the patch against this bug. [1] http://www.vupen.com/english/services/lea-index.php http://www.vupen.com/english/services/lea-index.php
- Tossrock 15y ago
  I'm not proficient at law either, but I don't think selling exploits is illegal. Unauthorized computer access is, but as long as they aren't doing that access themselves, I think they're in the clear. The analogy I first think of would be a gun store owner not being responsible for the crimes his customers commit. Although perhaps he'd be an accessory if he knew they had criminal intentions? I'm not sure.
reggplant 15y ago
According to their website, they provide 'offensive exploit services' to governments and intelligence services. So possibly, depending on wether you view those people as bad people.
- robtoo 15y ago
  They even admit it's not just governments they sell to: VUPEN customers include worldwide governments and major corporations in finance, technology and manufacturing. [http://www.vupen.com/english/company.php http://www.vupen.com/english/company.php] although their continued use of weasel words does stop just short of admitting that they're enabling industrial espionage.
  - joering2 15y ago
    VUPEN's offensive IT intrusion solutions and government grade exploits enable the Intelligence community and government agencies to achieve their lawful intercept missions using VUPEN's industry-recognized vulnerability research and intelligence. I am trying to imagine a situation where _lawfuly_ government agencies need to break into someones IE. Any ideas?
    - iy56 15y ago
      Collecting information pursuant to a legitimate search warrant?
      - joering2 15y ago
        hmmm.. I think law enforcement agencies need to stay in accordance with the law even with their "discovery". Breaking into someone's IE or exploiting vulnerabilities in order to get information otherwise you wouldn't be able to get falls under breaking into someones "property", I think, even if its "just" an Internet browser. Therefore, you "legitimate" search warrant will be thrown out of window by a judge, and classified as the Fruit of the poisonous tree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree
gcp 15y ago
Their customers are "Law enforcement agencies and governments". At least officially. But that's scary enough.
- Roritharr 15y ago
  The German law enforcement agencies is said to have been a customer of Vupen.
sliverstorm 15y ago
At least they appear to be too high-profile and above-ground to have criminals as their main clients.

ward 15y ago

I thought that too, at first, but it seemed to blatantly illegal to believe. Going by their site, it's mostly for government agencies against other agencies?[1] I'm not proficient enough at law to comment on the legalities of it. Another possibility I had in mind is that they want to get paid by people wanting to fix this vulnerability on their systems. eg, company X will have to come to them if they want their IE browsers to receive the patch against this bug. [1] http://www.vupen.com/english/services/lea-index.php http://www.vupen.com/english/services/lea-index.php

Tossrock 15y ago
I'm not proficient at law either, but I don't think selling exploits is illegal. Unauthorized computer access is, but as long as they aren't doing that access themselves, I think they're in the clear. The analogy I first think of would be a gun store owner not being responsible for the crimes his customers commit. Although perhaps he'd be an accessory if he knew they had criminal intentions? I'm not sure.

reggplant 15y ago

According to their website, they provide 'offensive exploit services' to governments and intelligence services. So possibly, depending on wether you view those people as bad people.

robtoo 15y ago
They even admit it's not just governments they sell to: VUPEN customers include worldwide governments and major corporations in finance, technology and manufacturing. [http://www.vupen.com/english/company.php http://www.vupen.com/english/company.php] although their continued use of weasel words does stop just short of admitting that they're enabling industrial espionage.
- joering2 15y ago
  VUPEN's offensive IT intrusion solutions and government grade exploits enable the Intelligence community and government agencies to achieve their lawful intercept missions using VUPEN's industry-recognized vulnerability research and intelligence. I am trying to imagine a situation where _lawfuly_ government agencies need to break into someones IE. Any ideas?
  - iy56 15y ago
    Collecting information pursuant to a legitimate search warrant?
    - joering2 15y ago
      hmmm.. I think law enforcement agencies need to stay in accordance with the law even with their "discovery". Breaking into someone's IE or exploiting vulnerabilities in order to get information otherwise you wouldn't be able to get falls under breaking into someones "property", I think, even if its "just" an Internet browser. Therefore, you "legitimate" search warrant will be thrown out of window by a judge, and classified as the Fruit of the poisonous tree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

gcp 15y ago

Their customers are "Law enforcement agencies and governments". At least officially. But that's scary enough.

Roritharr 15y ago
The German law enforcement agencies is said to have been a customer of Vupen.

sliverstorm 15y ago

At least they appear to be too high-profile and above-ground to have criminals as their main clients.