5 ms·

There are a lot of places in America where you can leave a city and go to a rural place where at best you might have a 120V charge, possibly nothing. An 800-100

There are a lot of places in America where you can leave a city and go to a rural place where at best you might have a 120V charge, possibly nothing. An 800-1000 mile range battery takes a lot of the charging anxiety away until the infrastructure for electric catches up to convenience and availability of gas. The weight issue, however, should be talked about more. I don't think filling highways with 10,000lb minivans with the acceleration speed of a Corvette is an improvement on the whole.

tw04 3y ago
>The weight issue, however, should be talked about more. I don't think filling highways with 10,000lb minivans with the acceleration speed of a Corvette is an improvement on the whole. But they aren't. The "minivans with the acceleration speed of a Corvette" exist today in the ICE world and are very few and far between because of price. You can buy a Lamborghini Urus that does 190mph, or a Range Rover Sport Turbo, or BMW X5. But those cars are all 6 figures++ so very few people can afford them. Sure, a Rivian R1S can do 0-60 like a Corvette, but Bob down the corner isn't spending $100k on a car, so the ones that accelerate like a Corvette will be exactly as ubiquitous as a Corvette. Meanwhile the fastest/heaviest Kia EV9 does 0-60 in 6.0 seconds, and weighs 5,700 lbs. Both a far cry from the numbers you're concerned with. Meanwhile a Chrysler Pacifica weighs 4,300 lbs, so the differences most people imagine are GREATLY exaggerated. The vast majority of the "the vehicles are too fast and too heavy" are scare tactics by oil companies. The F-150 tips the scales at 5,500 lbs and nobody is worried about them "ruining our roads". Please don't buy into the nonsense.
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  It's not about ruining roads, it's about how deadly heavy vehicles are for the pedestrians they hit.
  - wilg 3y ago
    IIRC average car weight has been stable for ~20 years, not increasing, and also pedestrian deaths have been decreasing over the same period, even as people are buying big weirdo trucks and whatnot. Also, I'd expect increased prevalence of active safety features is more important than the weight of the vehicle for pedestrian safety.
    - cycomanic 3y ago
      I think neither of these statements are true. Car weight has increased (https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/are-new-cars-and-trucks-getting-heavier/1260 https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/...) as well as pedestrian deaths which have increased 77% in the last 10 odd years (https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/map-pedestrian-fatalities-reach-four-decade-high-rcna30103 https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/map-pedestrian-fatalit...)
      - wilg 3y ago
        I suppose you are somewhat right, it's a bit muddier than I remembered and I guess I completely mixed up the pedestrian statistics. In this source, the increase in car weight seems quite minor over the last 10 years: https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-trends-report https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-... (fig ES-3) https://www.statista.com/statistics/660493/us-light-duty-vehicle-average-curb-weight/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/660493/us-light-duty-veh... Your link does not support your claim of a 77% increase, but this better source pegs it at 80%, so I suppose that's about right: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedes... That said, the rate hasn't gone up if you look at a 30-year timeframe, but it's a worrying trend nonetheless. It's a bit confusing though because I think you'd want to look at this per-capita. The absolute numbers show a 10-year upward trend, and the per-capita numbers are only split out by age group and show that same 10-year upward trend except it hasn't gone up at all for people under 20, which seems surprising. But I remain confused because the 10-year weight increase is very small, less than 10% or so, so it is not clear to me that increasing vehicle weight is the most important factor. IIHS mentions road design and front-end design, but not weight as key factors.
  - tw04 3y ago
    The shape of the vehicle has far, far more to do with pedestrians dying than the weight of the vehicle. I would MUCH rather go over the hood of a 4800lbs Tesla model S going 30mph than under the front bumper of a 3900lbs Tacoma.

tw04 3y ago

>The weight issue, however, should be talked about more. I don't think filling highways with 10,000lb minivans with the acceleration speed of a Corvette is an improvement on the whole. But they aren't. The "minivans with the acceleration speed of a Corvette" exist today in the ICE world and are very few and far between because of price. You can buy a Lamborghini Urus that does 190mph, or a Range Rover Sport Turbo, or BMW X5. But those cars are all 6 figures++ so very few people can afford them. Sure, a Rivian R1S can do 0-60 like a Corvette, but Bob down the corner isn't spending $100k on a car, so the ones that accelerate like a Corvette will be exactly as ubiquitous as a Corvette. Meanwhile the fastest/heaviest Kia EV9 does 0-60 in 6.0 seconds, and weighs 5,700 lbs. Both a far cry from the numbers you're concerned with. Meanwhile a Chrysler Pacifica weighs 4,300 lbs, so the differences most people imagine are GREATLY exaggerated. The vast majority of the "the vehicles are too fast and too heavy" are scare tactics by oil companies. The F-150 tips the scales at 5,500 lbs and nobody is worried about them "ruining our roads". Please don't buy into the nonsense.

DangitBobby 3y ago
It's not about ruining roads, it's about how deadly heavy vehicles are for the pedestrians they hit.
- wilg 3y ago
  IIRC average car weight has been stable for ~20 years, not increasing, and also pedestrian deaths have been decreasing over the same period, even as people are buying big weirdo trucks and whatnot. Also, I'd expect increased prevalence of active safety features is more important than the weight of the vehicle for pedestrian safety.
  - cycomanic 3y ago
    I think neither of these statements are true. Car weight has increased (https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/are-new-cars-and-trucks-getting-heavier/1260 https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/...) as well as pedestrian deaths which have increased 77% in the last 10 odd years (https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/map-pedestrian-fatalities-reach-four-decade-high-rcna30103 https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/map-pedestrian-fatalit...)
    - wilg 3y ago
      I suppose you are somewhat right, it's a bit muddier than I remembered and I guess I completely mixed up the pedestrian statistics. In this source, the increase in car weight seems quite minor over the last 10 years: https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-trends-report https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/highlights-automotive-... (fig ES-3) https://www.statista.com/statistics/660493/us-light-duty-vehicle-average-curb-weight/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/660493/us-light-duty-veh... Your link does not support your claim of a 77% increase, but this better source pegs it at 80%, so I suppose that's about right: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedes... That said, the rate hasn't gone up if you look at a 30-year timeframe, but it's a worrying trend nonetheless. It's a bit confusing though because I think you'd want to look at this per-capita. The absolute numbers show a 10-year upward trend, and the per-capita numbers are only split out by age group and show that same 10-year upward trend except it hasn't gone up at all for people under 20, which seems surprising. But I remain confused because the 10-year weight increase is very small, less than 10% or so, so it is not clear to me that increasing vehicle weight is the most important factor. IIHS mentions road design and front-end design, but not weight as key factors.
- tw04 3y ago
  The shape of the vehicle has far, far more to do with pedestrians dying than the weight of the vehicle. I would MUCH rather go over the hood of a 4800lbs Tesla model S going 30mph than under the front bumper of a 3900lbs Tacoma.