4 ms·

EU really needs to re-do the whole Schengen process for citizens of countries like India. Right now, you need to show booked tickets, hotel reservations, Insura

EU really needs to re-do the whole Schengen process for citizens of countries like India. Right now, you need to show booked tickets, hotel reservations, Insurance with very specific terms and a detailed itinerary even before you've been granted the visa. And after all that documentation nightmare, you get granted the visa for the exact specific dates you've requested. God forbid your plans change even by a day or two. By contrast, the Travel Visa to US, while also a painful process, at least grants you multiple entry visa thats valid for 10 years.

Racing0461 3y ago
why does the eu need to do that? a country with 1 billion people (majority of which is poor) is a recipe for disaster.
csmpltn 3y ago
[flagged]
- bad_username 3y ago
  Until quite recently, Ukrainian citizens had to endure the same gruelling process to be allowed into the Schengen zone. To travel to the US, a visa is still needed today. My point: Ukrainians are almost all non-brown, and it is a very destructive habit to inject the skin color into every issue.
  - csmpltn 3y ago
    Travel and immigration restrictions were lifted from Ukraine for getting invaded by Russia. If it wasn't for this, their EU accession process would've remained dead in the water due to severe structural and societal issues that are now being entirely overlooked. Other countries that have been way up the queue aren't getting the same preferential treatment for some reason. There's war and suffering in Ukraine. But there's even more war and more severe suffering in other parts of the world. They don't get the same "open arms" treatment though (often, it's where brown people live).
    - photonbeam 3y ago
      Once the war is over I’m sure they’ll suddenly start insisting previous requirements
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      I have to say I agree with this. Ukraine has very different values than the EU and corruption/oligarchy is still rampant. We have to be careful which countries we let in as we have already made this mistake with Hungary. Right now there isn't even a way to kick them out again. The idealistic view that joining the EU will automatically fix their society is clearly wrong. If you see other eastern European countries like Romania where even their own president protests (in vain) on the street for their corrupt government to go it's clear to me that this process should be stricter. But all this seems to be overlooked in favor of geopolitical concerns (giving Putin the finger and territorial expansion) This is not about the Ukrainian people by the way. They're mostly nice except the Russian-friendly ones in the East. But it's their government and economic model. It's the same way the average Russian doesn't even like Putin but has no way to remove him. Zelensky is a good guy but he can't fight the war and fix his country at the same time. Also we have to worry about who comes next, after all Hungary was a decent country when they joined, Orban only came later.
- petre 3y ago
  Actually they come to work here on contract for jobs that white people refuse to do (like in agriculture, delivery). The EU offers good working conditions. It has mostly been a positive experience and I am going to treat these people with respect. Most of them I've had the pleasure with have been nice and polite, I've seen couriers from Asia put a lot of effort into their jobs and they've also raised awareness of cyclists on public roads. Mostly due to them I no longer get honked/yelled at when riding a bike on public roads.
martin8412 3y ago
No, we don't need to change that. You're on a tourist visa. You arrive on day X and you leave on day Y. If circumstances change due to events out of your control, then there are solutions for that. You want better terms, improve the situation in India. Favorable terms are given to citizens of countries where they're unlikely to violate the terms of their visa, like overstaying the validity of their visa.
- sagarkamat 3y ago
  <If circumstances change due to events out of your control, then there are solutions for that.> There literally are no good solutions to that. I went through the whole rigmarole of getting a schengen visa for a specific week and then had to postpone my trip by a week due to change in business plans. The 'solution' was to get a second schengen visa for that second week, by submitting the same documents again and paying the same fee again. Which involves showing up at a consulate in-person. Which are not in every city. (source: https://manila.diplo.de/ph-en/service/visa/faq-gq-change-visa/1728052 https://manila.diplo.de/ph-en/service/visa/faq-gq-change-vis...) Literally nothing would be different if they decided to grant you the visa for the duration you asked for but allowed you the flexibility to make that trip within a time window. You would still ensure I'm in EU for a limited time, but allowed some flexibility. Secondly, none of the measures like asking me to show booked hotels or booked flights actually ensures I wont be overstaying. I could very well show you all of those and overstay if i wanted to do so illegally. All it does is forces people to shell out of a bunch of money even before they can be sure I'll be granted the visa.
- slim 3y ago
  you seem to have strong sense of ownership on your land, maybe your ancestors owned that land for very long time, but keep in mind that your ancestors came from somewhere and nobody denied them the right to stay and live
  - martin8412 3y ago
    Around the 13000 years. The previous significant inhabitants left or were wiped out due to the ice age. The idea of a country was established in 800AD. The concept of visas may not have existed at that point in time, but you were at the mercy of those in power. If they didn't like you, they'd banish you from their lands or worse. The modern rules are entirely based on statistics. How many overstay their visa. How many get denied a visa. Are compromised passports swiftly dealt with. India doesn't live up to the rules for easy visas.

Racing0461 3y ago

why does the eu need to do that? a country with 1 billion people (majority of which is poor) is a recipe for disaster.

csmpltn 3y ago

[flagged]

bad_username 3y ago
Until quite recently, Ukrainian citizens had to endure the same gruelling process to be allowed into the Schengen zone. To travel to the US, a visa is still needed today. My point: Ukrainians are almost all non-brown, and it is a very destructive habit to inject the skin color into every issue.
- csmpltn 3y ago
  Travel and immigration restrictions were lifted from Ukraine for getting invaded by Russia. If it wasn't for this, their EU accession process would've remained dead in the water due to severe structural and societal issues that are now being entirely overlooked. Other countries that have been way up the queue aren't getting the same preferential treatment for some reason. There's war and suffering in Ukraine. But there's even more war and more severe suffering in other parts of the world. They don't get the same "open arms" treatment though (often, it's where brown people live).
  - photonbeam 3y ago
    Once the war is over I’m sure they’ll suddenly start insisting previous requirements
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I have to say I agree with this. Ukraine has very different values than the EU and corruption/oligarchy is still rampant. We have to be careful which countries we let in as we have already made this mistake with Hungary. Right now there isn't even a way to kick them out again. The idealistic view that joining the EU will automatically fix their society is clearly wrong. If you see other eastern European countries like Romania where even their own president protests (in vain) on the street for their corrupt government to go it's clear to me that this process should be stricter. But all this seems to be overlooked in favor of geopolitical concerns (giving Putin the finger and territorial expansion) This is not about the Ukrainian people by the way. They're mostly nice except the Russian-friendly ones in the East. But it's their government and economic model. It's the same way the average Russian doesn't even like Putin but has no way to remove him. Zelensky is a good guy but he can't fight the war and fix his country at the same time. Also we have to worry about who comes next, after all Hungary was a decent country when they joined, Orban only came later.
petre 3y ago
Actually they come to work here on contract for jobs that white people refuse to do (like in agriculture, delivery). The EU offers good working conditions. It has mostly been a positive experience and I am going to treat these people with respect. Most of them I've had the pleasure with have been nice and polite, I've seen couriers from Asia put a lot of effort into their jobs and they've also raised awareness of cyclists on public roads. Mostly due to them I no longer get honked/yelled at when riding a bike on public roads.

martin8412 3y ago

No, we don't need to change that. You're on a tourist visa. You arrive on day X and you leave on day Y. If circumstances change due to events out of your control, then there are solutions for that. You want better terms, improve the situation in India. Favorable terms are given to citizens of countries where they're unlikely to violate the terms of their visa, like overstaying the validity of their visa.

sagarkamat 3y ago
<If circumstances change due to events out of your control, then there are solutions for that.> There literally are no good solutions to that. I went through the whole rigmarole of getting a schengen visa for a specific week and then had to postpone my trip by a week due to change in business plans. The 'solution' was to get a second schengen visa for that second week, by submitting the same documents again and paying the same fee again. Which involves showing up at a consulate in-person. Which are not in every city. (source: https://manila.diplo.de/ph-en/service/visa/faq-gq-change-visa/1728052 https://manila.diplo.de/ph-en/service/visa/faq-gq-change-vis...) Literally nothing would be different if they decided to grant you the visa for the duration you asked for but allowed you the flexibility to make that trip within a time window. You would still ensure I'm in EU for a limited time, but allowed some flexibility. Secondly, none of the measures like asking me to show booked hotels or booked flights actually ensures I wont be overstaying. I could very well show you all of those and overstay if i wanted to do so illegally. All it does is forces people to shell out of a bunch of money even before they can be sure I'll be granted the visa.
slim 3y ago
you seem to have strong sense of ownership on your land, maybe your ancestors owned that land for very long time, but keep in mind that your ancestors came from somewhere and nobody denied them the right to stay and live
- martin8412 3y ago
  Around the 13000 years. The previous significant inhabitants left or were wiped out due to the ice age. The idea of a country was established in 800AD. The concept of visas may not have existed at that point in time, but you were at the mercy of those in power. If they didn't like you, they'd banish you from their lands or worse. The modern rules are entirely based on statistics. How many overstay their visa. How many get denied a visa. Are compromised passports swiftly dealt with. India doesn't live up to the rules for easy visas.