5 ms·

I'm going to be in the minority here, but I don't want Apple (or Android or anybody) syncing my documents, photos, or passwords. I'll do my own local backups or

I'm going to be in the minority here, but I don't want Apple (or Android or anybody) syncing my documents, photos, or passwords. I'll do my own local backups or backups to a server I control, or at the very least using encryption that I control if it's going to a server I don't control. iCloud and every other kind of automated syncing is so damn complicated that I don't know everything that gets backed up, when it gets backed up, if it's encrypted, and whether or not Apple (or whatever company) guarantees to me that the data is encrypted in such a way that they can't read it. Even the OP calls parts of it "exceedingly complex". I was hoping the article was going to have some good tips on how to disable iCloud with absolute finality. Every time I get a new iPhone, or after an iOS update, or after configuration changes I have to go around and click off syncing in obscure places, and Siri too. Have you noticed that on a new phone, after transferring over your data locally (not through iCloud), it'll start syncing them to iCloud without even asking you? Furthermore, even after you've turned it off, it gets re-enabled under some unspecified conditions that I've never figured out (after iOS updates?), so you have to forever keep checking. Macs have been auto-saving your documents to iCloud by default since at least 2014 (OS X Yosemite). I find it pretty amazing how most people are now OK with a third party keeping a copy of every document and photo of their lives.

realusername 3y ago
> iCloud and every other kind of automated syncing is so damn complicated that I don't know everything that gets backed up Same for me, I'm really not used to iOS either but there doesn't seem to be a way to know what's being synced or not, the progress of the sync and any sync logs from helping my father. And if there is, well I'm a software developer and didn't find it so it's clearly not a good UX. Good luck the day you end up needing your backed up data, you might get some unwanted surprises.
- simondotau 3y ago
  I've helped a few people recovering from backup after losing or destroying their iPhones. The iCloud backup has, in my experience at least, been nothing but good luck.
  - realusername 3y ago
    Sure, it can be, I would not bet on it due to the lack of status though.
    - simondotau 3y ago
      When one accidentally drops their iPhone off a ferry and into the ocean water, most people tend to be infinitely grateful for any backup, even if it's 12 hours old. (And even if the device backup isn't up-to-the-minute, core iCloud features like messages, contacts, notes and photo libraries usually are.)
      - realusername 3y ago
        I don't mind if it's 100% up to date or perfect, but I'd only trust it if I can see somewhere that it's not been stuck not syncing and I can have a look at the sync logs. There's nothing worse than thinking you are covered whereas you weren't and you could not know about it. "Don't worry it will work" isn't satisfying enough in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm a software dev but I know things can break, bugs do happen and I know by experience it's necessary to have a place to check the status of it. Back to my example where I help my father, I bought some extra storage to my father because he got an email that icloud was full. How long do I need to wait before the iphone is fully synced in order to format it? There's no way to know.
reacharavindh 3y ago
I’m similarly concerned about opaque systems. But, chose to trade-off my concern for the convenience. But, could you simply not create an Apple account in the first place and set up your iPhone without it? https://mobiletrans.wondershare.com/iphone-tips/can-i-use-iphone-without-apple-id.html https://mobiletrans.wondershare.com/iphone-tips/can-i-use-ip...
- sneak 3y ago
  You can't install apps without an Apple ID. You can't get an Apple ID without a phone number.
  - wpm 3y ago
    You do need an AppleID but that doesn’t mean you have to turn on iCloud. I have a test iPad I erase once a week, and the last thing I can’t automate is going to the App Store app and signing in there rather than during Setup Assistant or from the Settings app. You’ll still get a prompt to go “finish signing in” or some such, but no document sync, no iMessage, no Photos, just access to apps.
    - sneak 3y ago
      The moment you sign in with the Apple ID in the App Store app, it helpfully signs you in to iCloud and you have to go and disable it.
      - lapcat 3y ago
        This isn't true in my experience.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    That is because MFA is mandatory. You can always just use a burner phone or eSIM.
    - sneak 3y ago
0ct4via 3y ago
Apple are pretty clear about what security options exist for data stored in iCloud: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
- cantrevealname 3y ago
  I'm upvoting you because that's excellent link I hadn't seen before. However, it does tend to confirm what I was saying: the policies and procedures of syncing are so damn complicated. It also confirms that your photos and notes are typically not encrypted in a way that prevents Apple from reading them. I.e., Apple can read them unless you are (a) running iOS 16.2 or greater, and (b) you have "chosen to enable Advanced Data Protection".
sealeck 3y ago
> I'll do my own local backups or backups to a server I control, or at the very least using encryption that I control if it's going to a server I don't control. > I find it pretty amazing how most people are now OK with a third party keeping a copy of every document and photo of their lives. Because it's convenient for them and they don't have the time/knowledge/inclination to do the former? See all the comments on HN about how Dropbox would never take off because <insert various technical solutions most people can't implement and those who can don't want to because it takes up a lot of time for little gain>.
Dalewyn 3y ago
>I find it pretty amazing how most people are now OK with a third party keeping a copy of every document and photo of their lives. Most people can't be arsed to back stuff up even though losing them will be tragic, destructive, and debilitating all at once. For most people, autosyncing by the likes of iCloud, Google Drive, Onedrive, et al. are a godsend of usability and practicality. Likewise, most people can't be arsed about encryption or privacy either.
- matwood 3y ago
  > Likewise, most people can't be arsed about encryption or privacy either. Yep, I think if the average person was asked to rank the what's important it would be convenience/recoverability >>> privacy/encryption.
tinus_hn 3y ago
> I'll do my own local backups or backups to a server I control, or at the very least using encryption that I control if it's going to a server I don't control. You’re presenting a choice here, which indicates that you are fantasizing about what you would want and haven’t actually set this up. It’s not hard though, you can do local backups on either a USB disk or the Time Capsule like solutions and store your files on any WebDAV share you provide yourself, all integrated just fine. You just have to set it up yourself.
ksec 3y ago
>I find it pretty amazing how most people are now OK with a third party keeping a copy of every document and photo of their lives. I am not OK. But I dont have a cheap or affordable, easy enough solution either. 99.999% ( Dare I say 100% ) of solution offered on HN are not consumer friendly. They either go into 321 backup mode, ZFS on TrueNAS, BTRFS, or Self Hosting Linux as easy enough. That is like in 2000 someone showcasing to me how easy it was to use linux. I want a Time Capsule, appliance like devices where setting up should be easy plug and play. And unless NAND price stays at the current level ( they are selling at cost or lost already ) It will be a long time until we could get a 2x2TB iCloud Server at home for something like $299. I also want to state syncing isn't just about convenient either. It is about lock in, it is about iCloud Storage, it is about Service Revenue. Apple now has ~700M paying services customers.

realusername 3y ago

> iCloud and every other kind of automated syncing is so damn complicated that I don't know everything that gets backed up Same for me, I'm really not used to iOS either but there doesn't seem to be a way to know what's being synced or not, the progress of the sync and any sync logs from helping my father. And if there is, well I'm a software developer and didn't find it so it's clearly not a good UX. Good luck the day you end up needing your backed up data, you might get some unwanted surprises.

simondotau 3y ago
I've helped a few people recovering from backup after losing or destroying their iPhones. The iCloud backup has, in my experience at least, been nothing but good luck.
- realusername 3y ago
  Sure, it can be, I would not bet on it due to the lack of status though.
  - simondotau 3y ago
    When one accidentally drops their iPhone off a ferry and into the ocean water, most people tend to be infinitely grateful for any backup, even if it's 12 hours old. (And even if the device backup isn't up-to-the-minute, core iCloud features like messages, contacts, notes and photo libraries usually are.)
    - realusername 3y ago
      I don't mind if it's 100% up to date or perfect, but I'd only trust it if I can see somewhere that it's not been stuck not syncing and I can have a look at the sync logs. There's nothing worse than thinking you are covered whereas you weren't and you could not know about it. "Don't worry it will work" isn't satisfying enough in my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm a software dev but I know things can break, bugs do happen and I know by experience it's necessary to have a place to check the status of it. Back to my example where I help my father, I bought some extra storage to my father because he got an email that icloud was full. How long do I need to wait before the iphone is fully synced in order to format it? There's no way to know.

reacharavindh 3y ago

I’m similarly concerned about opaque systems. But, chose to trade-off my concern for the convenience. But, could you simply not create an Apple account in the first place and set up your iPhone without it? https://mobiletrans.wondershare.com/iphone-tips/can-i-use-iphone-without-apple-id.html https://mobiletrans.wondershare.com/iphone-tips/can-i-use-ip...

sneak 3y ago
You can't install apps without an Apple ID. You can't get an Apple ID without a phone number.
- wpm 3y ago
  You do need an AppleID but that doesn’t mean you have to turn on iCloud. I have a test iPad I erase once a week, and the last thing I can’t automate is going to the App Store app and signing in there rather than during Setup Assistant or from the Settings app. You’ll still get a prompt to go “finish signing in” or some such, but no document sync, no iMessage, no Photos, just access to apps.
  - sneak 3y ago
    The moment you sign in with the Apple ID in the App Store app, it helpfully signs you in to iCloud and you have to go and disable it.
    - lapcat 3y ago
      This isn't true in my experience.
- threeseed 3y ago
  That is because MFA is mandatory. You can always just use a burner phone or eSIM.
  - sneak 3y ago

0ct4via 3y ago

Apple are pretty clear about what security options exist for data stored in iCloud: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

cantrevealname 3y ago
I'm upvoting you because that's excellent link I hadn't seen before. However, it does tend to confirm what I was saying: the policies and procedures of syncing are so damn complicated. It also confirms that your photos and notes are typically not encrypted in a way that prevents Apple from reading them. I.e., Apple can read them unless you are (a) running iOS 16.2 or greater, and (b) you have "chosen to enable Advanced Data Protection".

sealeck 3y ago

> I'll do my own local backups or backups to a server I control, or at the very least using encryption that I control if it's going to a server I don't control. > I find it pretty amazing how most people are now OK with a third party keeping a copy of every document and photo of their lives. Because it's convenient for them and they don't have the time/knowledge/inclination to do the former? See all the comments on HN about how Dropbox would never take off because <insert various technical solutions most people can't implement and those who can don't want to because it takes up a lot of time for little gain>.

Dalewyn 3y ago

>I find it pretty amazing how most people are now OK with a third party keeping a copy of every document and photo of their lives. Most people can't be arsed to back stuff up even though losing them will be tragic, destructive, and debilitating all at once. For most people, autosyncing by the likes of iCloud, Google Drive, Onedrive, et al. are a godsend of usability and practicality. Likewise, most people can't be arsed about encryption or privacy either.

matwood 3y ago
> Likewise, most people can't be arsed about encryption or privacy either. Yep, I think if the average person was asked to rank the what's important it would be convenience/recoverability >>> privacy/encryption.

tinus_hn 3y ago

> I'll do my own local backups or backups to a server I control, or at the very least using encryption that I control if it's going to a server I don't control. You’re presenting a choice here, which indicates that you are fantasizing about what you would want and haven’t actually set this up. It’s not hard though, you can do local backups on either a USB disk or the Time Capsule like solutions and store your files on any WebDAV share you provide yourself, all integrated just fine. You just have to set it up yourself.

ksec 3y ago

>I find it pretty amazing how most people are now OK with a third party keeping a copy of every document and photo of their lives. I am not OK. But I dont have a cheap or affordable, easy enough solution either. 99.999% ( Dare I say 100% ) of solution offered on HN are not consumer friendly. They either go into 321 backup mode, ZFS on TrueNAS, BTRFS, or Self Hosting Linux as easy enough. That is like in 2000 someone showcasing to me how easy it was to use linux. I want a Time Capsule, appliance like devices where setting up should be easy plug and play. And unless NAND price stays at the current level ( they are selling at cost or lost already ) It will be a long time until we could get a 2x2TB iCloud Server at home for something like $299. I also want to state syncing isn't just about convenient either. It is about lock in, it is about iCloud Storage, it is about Service Revenue. Apple now has ~700M paying services customers.