6 ms·

Tourism is the modern day resource curse. It provides mostly only low skilled jobs (just like mining) and the financial benefits largely accrue to wealth holde

Tourism is the modern day resource curse. It provides mostly only low skilled jobs (just like mining) and the financial benefits largely accrue to wealth holders (just like mining). Proper management is crucial to make sure it does not destabilize local economies. Banning cruise ships is a good start.

seydor 3y ago
I m certain that in 10 years we ll be looking at tourism as a bad habit like smoking. It's given a free pass for now because many developed countries have large tourism sectors but it remains an unsustainable source of pollution
- willcipriano 3y ago
  It is at that point I'll take those people seriously on climate change.
- 28304283409234 3y ago
  I do not understand why you are voted down. Well known dutch author has a novel with this as one of the main themes: https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Hotel-Europa-Leonard-Pfeijffer/dp/0374165904 https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Hotel-Europa-Leonard-Pfeijffer/... I know a number of people that had their view on tourism change after reading this. Myself included.
marcosdumay 3y ago
The places that manage to organize tourism flows benefit quite a lot. But yeah, cruise ships aren't a great public.
defrost 3y ago
> It provides mostly only low skilled jobs (just like mining) Someone's severely out of touch. No jobs in semi autonomous robotics for you then. https://www.riotinto.com/en/about/innovation/automation https://www.riotinto.com/en/about/innovation/automation and that's barely scratching the surface of the range of high tech job oppoprtunities in the mineral exploration and extraction sector. Quick, just whip me up a low tech magnetotelluric imaging station, integrate that data with EM, seismic, radiometrics, bore hole samples and knock out an optimal pit design with workable angles, power sources and estimates for plant and machine construction and deployment costs. It's no wonder the US barely operates at scale with attitudes such as that.
- iancmceachern 3y ago
  I think the point he was making was more ...just like mining (used to be in developed countries but still is in developing countries). For every advanced, safe, automated mine like you describe there is another that's exactly the opposite. They still have giant open pit asbestos Minesin some countries for Gods sake. I'm not trying to dog on mining. I went to the Colorado school of Mines, many of my fellow students and teachers had bumper stickers that said "the car you're sitting in and the road its driving on brought to you by mining". It's (mining's) not bad, it's just your comment misses the point.
  - defrost 3y ago
    > I went to the Colorado school of Mines Good for you, I just went straight from working on a minesite as a teenager (late 1970s) into geophysical coding for global exploration surveys after writing fleet optimisation and pit design software with a segue between in multichannel marine seismic aquisition | processing .. and then worked on the backend of the pre S&P version of https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/metals-mining https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/met... > For every advanced, safe, automated mine like you describe there is another that's exactly the opposite. Sure, by number, in fact I'd say there's more than one - shitty mines outnumber 'good' mines. Now, how's that go by mining volume and percentage contribution to the global resource demand? The Rio Tinto and other Anglo Australian iron ore mines in Western Australia alone put out some 800 million tonnes per annum - other mine sites for iron ore on that scale are few but equally modern - they don't hit that scale by having grubby faced children walk material out via hessian sacks across their backs. Even the high volume coal mines are open cuts with Bagger 288 scale machines. When you look at the bulk volume of global scale resource supply would you say that a large percentage of that material comes from "modern mines" or from mines such as Brazil's Serra Pelada [1] ? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoOdhKYj8Bc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoOdhKYj8Bc
    - iancmceachern 3y ago
      Russia pulls 500 million tons of asbestos out of a single open pit mine per year. https://www.icij.org/investigations/dangers-dust/russia-worlds-asbestos-behemoth/#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20a%20million%20metric,from%20the%20mine%20each%20year https://www.icij.org/investigations/dangers-dust/russia-worl.... I'd be willing to bet that mine isn't terribly automated, and they're pulling serious amounts out. The mine you mention in Australia sounds cool. It's not on this top 10 list, which has many other, seemingly larger, open pit Mines in places like Russia, etc. That again, are likely not very automated. https://www.mining-technology.com/features/feature-top-ten-deepest-open-pit-mines-world/ https://www.mining-technology.com/features/feature-top-ten-d... It really depends on what resources you are talking about and where in the world. I agree with you for things like copper. I don't at all agree with you for things like diamonds, gold, most gems, rare earth metals, titanium, asbestos, etc.

seydor 3y ago

I m certain that in 10 years we ll be looking at tourism as a bad habit like smoking. It's given a free pass for now because many developed countries have large tourism sectors but it remains an unsustainable source of pollution

willcipriano 3y ago
It is at that point I'll take those people seriously on climate change.
28304283409234 3y ago
I do not understand why you are voted down. Well known dutch author has a novel with this as one of the main themes: https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Hotel-Europa-Leonard-Pfeijffer/dp/0374165904 https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Hotel-Europa-Leonard-Pfeijffer/... I know a number of people that had their view on tourism change after reading this. Myself included.

marcosdumay 3y ago

The places that manage to organize tourism flows benefit quite a lot. But yeah, cruise ships aren't a great public.

defrost 3y ago

> It provides mostly only low skilled jobs (just like mining) Someone's severely out of touch. No jobs in semi autonomous robotics for you then. https://www.riotinto.com/en/about/innovation/automation https://www.riotinto.com/en/about/innovation/automation and that's barely scratching the surface of the range of high tech job oppoprtunities in the mineral exploration and extraction sector. Quick, just whip me up a low tech magnetotelluric imaging station, integrate that data with EM, seismic, radiometrics, bore hole samples and knock out an optimal pit design with workable angles, power sources and estimates for plant and machine construction and deployment costs. It's no wonder the US barely operates at scale with attitudes such as that.

iancmceachern 3y ago
I think the point he was making was more ...just like mining (used to be in developed countries but still is in developing countries). For every advanced, safe, automated mine like you describe there is another that's exactly the opposite. They still have giant open pit asbestos Minesin some countries for Gods sake. I'm not trying to dog on mining. I went to the Colorado school of Mines, many of my fellow students and teachers had bumper stickers that said "the car you're sitting in and the road its driving on brought to you by mining". It's (mining's) not bad, it's just your comment misses the point.
- defrost 3y ago
  > I went to the Colorado school of Mines Good for you, I just went straight from working on a minesite as a teenager (late 1970s) into geophysical coding for global exploration surveys after writing fleet optimisation and pit design software with a segue between in multichannel marine seismic aquisition | processing .. and then worked on the backend of the pre S&P version of https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/metals-mining https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/met... > For every advanced, safe, automated mine like you describe there is another that's exactly the opposite. Sure, by number, in fact I'd say there's more than one - shitty mines outnumber 'good' mines. Now, how's that go by mining volume and percentage contribution to the global resource demand? The Rio Tinto and other Anglo Australian iron ore mines in Western Australia alone put out some 800 million tonnes per annum - other mine sites for iron ore on that scale are few but equally modern - they don't hit that scale by having grubby faced children walk material out via hessian sacks across their backs. Even the high volume coal mines are open cuts with Bagger 288 scale machines. When you look at the bulk volume of global scale resource supply would you say that a large percentage of that material comes from "modern mines" or from mines such as Brazil's Serra Pelada [1] ? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoOdhKYj8Bc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoOdhKYj8Bc
  - iancmceachern 3y ago
    Russia pulls 500 million tons of asbestos out of a single open pit mine per year. https://www.icij.org/investigations/dangers-dust/russia-worlds-asbestos-behemoth/#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20a%20million%20metric,from%20the%20mine%20each%20year https://www.icij.org/investigations/dangers-dust/russia-worl.... I'd be willing to bet that mine isn't terribly automated, and they're pulling serious amounts out. The mine you mention in Australia sounds cool. It's not on this top 10 list, which has many other, seemingly larger, open pit Mines in places like Russia, etc. That again, are likely not very automated. https://www.mining-technology.com/features/feature-top-ten-deepest-open-pit-mines-world/ https://www.mining-technology.com/features/feature-top-ten-d... It really depends on what resources you are talking about and where in the world. I agree with you for things like copper. I don't at all agree with you for things like diamonds, gold, most gems, rare earth metals, titanium, asbestos, etc.