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The older folks typically also benefited from getting into housing when it was less scarce, riding one or more waves of progress, at a time where healthcare ROI
by losteric 3y ago
The older folks typically also benefited from getting into housing when it was less scarce, riding one or more waves of progress, at a time where healthcare ROI was much higher.
My generation faces a different economic situation. I know people in academia that love what they do and dreamed of living a life like Rudy's. In practice, they're stuck - huge debts, dismally low post-grad wages, stuck renting, just hoping for a stable position (luck over merit). K-12 teachers, lifetime musicians, social services, even nurses in similar positions.
Is meaning worth that kind of struggle?
Not for me. I want to bake as a craft in an owned place of business, then go home to sleep in a bedroom I own. Big Tech is the means to that end. Wake up, Clock in, autopilot, clock out, live. Within ethical reason, I will take any boring meaningless job if it pays well enough.
Locals complain about Big Tech killing the quirky unique culture my city used to have... and I agree! But what was the alternative? Pursuing the baking craft on debt and leases, paycheck to paycheck, barely treading water without any savings? That sounds like living a dream, getting sucked dry by parasites. There are public policies that could bring back the vibrancy, but no one wants density or lower property values (a prerequisite for housing the people that seed a vibrant culture)...
- lambdasquirrel 3y agoAll the folks in my peer group who followed their left-leaning parents mantra of doing something interesting, something that you love, got absolutely screwed. As much as I hate big tech, I cannot blame anyone for pursuing it.
- bombolo 3y agobeing a hipster and being a socialist aren't the same.
- rxhernandez 3y agoKinda hard to be either without being left-leaning
- flangola7 3y agoChud brohipsters are a very real thing.
- pixelatedindex 3y agoAnecdotally speaking, I don’t ever see myself being right-leaning because really, what do I have to conserve to be conservative? I don’t have much wealth, I can’t buy a house for the foreseeable future, I will be done paying off literally all my debt including student loan next year, I have a wife and no kids. So yeah… I just want to do what I like and screw making another person or company richer, they’ll be fine.
- astrange 3y agoIn a former communist country being a communist can be the conservative position. And in China being a communist is actually a kind of capitalist. Thanks Deng.
- ekianjo 3y agoMaybe but there is a very big overlap
- bombolo 3y agoone is about feeling morally superior to others, one is about helping others.
- BMorearty 3y agoI followed my left-leaning parents' advice to get paid for doing something I love. But luckily for me I love coding.
- adastra22 3y agoSame, lol. I love coding and startups. We hit the jackpot.
- infinite8s 3y agoWe did, didn't we? Sadly most intellectual loves aren't as monetarily rewarding as programming has been for the past three decades.
- kenjackson 3y agoHow did they get screwed? I feel like I kind of got screwed going into SW. I have friends who make 1/3 the money as athletic trainers, but just seem to love their life so much more. Maybe when we’re 60 things will change, but seems like a bad tradeoff.
- vl 3y agoThere are happier because their work is finite. They do athletic sessions, they are done, their time then is their own. As software dev/lead/manager/pm you are never done, there is always next thing to do. This why some devs become SREs - your shift is over, you are done.
- kenjackson 3y agoThat probably plays a factor.
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- Frog0fWar 3y agoI'm not sure about SREs - it probably depends on company, but where I work, if you aren't oncall, you develop projects similarly to a SWE - so you can still think about work after you clock out.
- astrange 3y agoOne reason devs work a lot more is that getting paid more causes you to work more, not less, because you miss out more by not working. (This is why two income families are a sign of high wages more than poverty. And that both of you have relatively equal earning power of course.)
- kristopolous 3y agoMy parents are on the far right. It was only after I ignored their rugged individualism Ayn Rand style beliefs that I got anywhere in life and now I'm doing fine. That's probably why I consider it to be such a scam. YMMV.
- lambdasquirrel 3y agoThe opposite of something that is not working is not necessarily something that is working.
- ohbleek 3y agoThe opposite of a useless comment is not necessarily an aphorism.
- kristopolous 3y agoMy point was more that following your dreams will get you to about the same place as gumption, hard work and keeping your head down. Instead you need to understand power dynamics, social arrangements, how to negotiate, things like that. For instance, your success as an artist in say the 1960s could come much easier if you spent your time becoming close friends with Peggy Guggenheim instead of working on your brush stroke. Next time you see a stupid startup get funded, go research who the founders are and invariably you'll find like, their parents are hedge fund managers. Now you could call me a cynic, complain it's unfair, or you could go out and meet some hedge fund managers with your time (this option works the best!)
- Tade0 3y agoSounds more like a generational thing than anything connected with political affiliation. In my corner of the world it's the economically conservative crowd that advocates this - assuming money will follow because that's what happened to some of them in the 90s, when we were fresh out of communism.
- lostlogin 3y agoYour housing comment is key - the grind of paying for rent or a mortgage with two incomes really stifles and ability people have to try something.
- sieabahlpark 3y agoI think the reality is if you can't afford to live on a single income the chosen area you want to live in isn't where you should be. If you can't get a singular salary which affords you to live in an area then you're selling yourself short.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoThis is almost always due to a couple trying to settle in a neighbourhood or school district or home beyond their means, at least in the US. Even a tenured professor at Columbia, who won the Nobel prize and loves their work and has a wife earning a matching compensation, would have a pretty miserable life if they insisted on mortgaging a large Upper East Side townhouse. It's the same in Palo Alto from what I've heard.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoIt appears that areas where ownership are within reach of single income families is shrinking rapidly.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoNot according to the metrics I've seen. The total acreage of all desirable neighbourhoods in the US beyond the reasonable means of a couple with MANGA compensation is not even 1000 square miles. Unless you know of some source?
- lostlogin 3y agoI live in New Zealand. The average house price is nearly NZ$900k, with the big cities being more. The median wage is about NZ$63k. Jobs, family etc are around the cities. There is a minimum deposit requirement before you can get a mortgage (at 20% or less it’s hard but possible. Below about 5% no one will lend). Houses are way overpriced and average quality is low (insulation, heating/cooling, water tightness etc). Paying for a house on a single income is out of reach for huge swathes of the population and would also leave a household vulnerable if the earner was unable to work. Your ideal of paying for a house with one wage is something left behind in 1950 New Zealand. Jobs, children, lifestyles etc are all dictated by rent and mortgage requirements. It’s depressing how inflated housing costs are. https://www.qv.co.nz/price-index/ https://www.qv.co.nz/price-index/ https://www.newzealandshores.com/new-zealand-job-search/salaries-new-zealand/ https://www.newzealandshores.com/new-zealand-job-search/sala... https://www.westpac.co.nz/home-loans-mortgages/first-home/kiwisaver-and-low-deposit-options/ https://www.westpac.co.nz/home-loans-mortgages/first-home/ki...
- foobiekr 3y agoNot everything is about housing, in particular someone choosing to work to 100+ doesn't really have anything to do with housing.
- pixelatedindex 3y agoNo, but it helps to own a house if you wish to work to 100+
- Aeolun 3y agoWould work just as well when renting.
- pixelatedindex 3y agoColor me skeptical. By the time you’re retired, you probably want your own place with minimal expense. Renting means you’re at the mercy of landlords and at that age I don’t think you’d be happy with that kind of arrangement.
- whymauri 3y agoThe main reason an academic career seemed infeasible to was because I would never comfortably afford the housing. I went broke my first summer living alone and decided to become a software engineer.
- spaceman_2020 3y agoAs someone who gave up the academia dream for Big Tech, I can relate…