4 ms·

It's crazy that this economically makes more sense than providing the Internet over a wire. Can we have a law passed that would mandate to lease the last mile

by takeda 3y ago

It's crazy that this economically makes more sense than providing the Internet over a wire. Can we have a law passed that would mandate to lease the last mile to others (kind of like phone companies were required phone lines for DSL) so once again we can have competition? It is just dumb to require every ISP to run a dedicated line to your house.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
In the US the regulators have been captured or are neutered. Attempts to install effective regulators are stalled until they withdraw from the appointment process.
elif 3y ago
This is how it works in Holland with Open Access fiber lines https://hollandcityfiber.com/about-holland-city-fiber/ https://hollandcityfiber.com/about-holland-city-fiber/ The fiber itself is owned and maintained by the public and any number of private ISP's can offer service over it. Changing ISP provider is a software decision and as such the average cost is 42 euro/mo
- sofixa 3y ago
  Similar story in France, ISPs have to give each other access at regulated costs, after an initial grace period (if an ISP builds a new line they have exclusivity on it for 1-2 years, to still incentivise investment). Internet is broadly affordable, and there are tons of villages and towns in the middle of nowhere with proud "commune fibrée" sign on their entrance. (Ironically sometimes such villages and towns are better connected than midsized cities due to the costs involved).
- caladin 3y ago
  First time I see someone plainly refer to 'Holland' and it's not in The Netherlands but actually a city in Michigan. Checked on a map and it's actually near a place called Zeeland, which is also in The Netherlands. Wow "Noordeloos" also sounds Dutch. I guess they just have many Dutch-named towns over there.
quechimba 3y ago
In the village where my brother lives there are no wires. There is a 4G tower but it runs on solar panels and the connection isn't very stable on cloudy days. I spoke to a person who works at a company in that area that uses Starlink. One satellite dish would probably be enough to provide Internet for the entire village.
- takeda 3y ago
  That's true, but they aren't doing this to provide internet to villages. As you pointed out, there's not much demand there and that's why no one bothers to provide internet access (I guess the good thing with Starlink and Amazon's version of it is that once it works, it should work in those places too). Anyway the real reason they are doing it is that is extremely hard to enter the ISP space. It's not even the cost of fiber to run to every home, it is the cost of laying it and all the hoops the existing monopoly will use it. Google has tried and failed. What often happened is that when they enter market with its 1Gbps offering, suddenly the 30Mbps ISP had 1Gbps and even at a cheaper price. They could sell it at a loss, because they were making a killing in other regions. They also created all kind of obstacles when Google tried to run a wire. It is ridiculous and we really need a law to force competition.
  - quechimba 3y ago
    I'm sure there is demand, it's just too remote to be practical. They did get a fiber connection to the closest city a few years ago which made 4G faster. One million people live in the region and there are more places like that in the world. 32% of the Latin American population don't have access to high speed Internet. Schools, hospitals and businesses could be connected which would be good for education, healthcare and economy. I spent a few days in Leticia and the Internet connection was really shaky, sometimes they can't even work at the migration office because the connection is so bad. 50 000 people live there and 67 000 in the neighboring city Tabatinga. And there's a lot of islands in the world too.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    They're presumably doing it to sell internet to anybody who willing to buy it, why shouldn't that include villages? If your point is that it's not an act of charity.. so what?
DanAtC 3y ago
It doesn't. This is a dick measuring contest between billionaires.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Why'd google fail? Google has a lot more resources than any billionaire.
7e 3y ago
It’s not clear that it does make economic sense. Amazon may be burning margin for growth, or placing bets on the future relative costs of satellite vs 5G and cable/fiber which may not pan out.

by takeda 3y ago

paulryanrogers 3y ago

In the US the regulators have been captured or are neutered. Attempts to install effective regulators are stalled until they withdraw from the appointment process.

elif 3y ago

This is how it works in Holland with Open Access fiber lines https://hollandcityfiber.com/about-holland-city-fiber/ https://hollandcityfiber.com/about-holland-city-fiber/ The fiber itself is owned and maintained by the public and any number of private ISP's can offer service over it. Changing ISP provider is a software decision and as such the average cost is 42 euro/mo

sofixa 3y ago
Similar story in France, ISPs have to give each other access at regulated costs, after an initial grace period (if an ISP builds a new line they have exclusivity on it for 1-2 years, to still incentivise investment). Internet is broadly affordable, and there are tons of villages and towns in the middle of nowhere with proud "commune fibrée" sign on their entrance. (Ironically sometimes such villages and towns are better connected than midsized cities due to the costs involved).
caladin 3y ago
First time I see someone plainly refer to 'Holland' and it's not in The Netherlands but actually a city in Michigan. Checked on a map and it's actually near a place called Zeeland, which is also in The Netherlands. Wow "Noordeloos" also sounds Dutch. I guess they just have many Dutch-named towns over there.

quechimba 3y ago

In the village where my brother lives there are no wires. There is a 4G tower but it runs on solar panels and the connection isn't very stable on cloudy days. I spoke to a person who works at a company in that area that uses Starlink. One satellite dish would probably be enough to provide Internet for the entire village.

takeda 3y ago
That's true, but they aren't doing this to provide internet to villages. As you pointed out, there's not much demand there and that's why no one bothers to provide internet access (I guess the good thing with Starlink and Amazon's version of it is that once it works, it should work in those places too). Anyway the real reason they are doing it is that is extremely hard to enter the ISP space. It's not even the cost of fiber to run to every home, it is the cost of laying it and all the hoops the existing monopoly will use it. Google has tried and failed. What often happened is that when they enter market with its 1Gbps offering, suddenly the 30Mbps ISP had 1Gbps and even at a cheaper price. They could sell it at a loss, because they were making a killing in other regions. They also created all kind of obstacles when Google tried to run a wire. It is ridiculous and we really need a law to force competition.
- quechimba 3y ago
  I'm sure there is demand, it's just too remote to be practical. They did get a fiber connection to the closest city a few years ago which made 4G faster. One million people live in the region and there are more places like that in the world. 32% of the Latin American population don't have access to high speed Internet. Schools, hospitals and businesses could be connected which would be good for education, healthcare and economy. I spent a few days in Leticia and the Internet connection was really shaky, sometimes they can't even work at the migration office because the connection is so bad. 50 000 people live there and 67 000 in the neighboring city Tabatinga. And there's a lot of islands in the world too.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  They're presumably doing it to sell internet to anybody who willing to buy it, why shouldn't that include villages? If your point is that it's not an act of charity.. so what?

DanAtC 3y ago

It doesn't. This is a dick measuring contest between billionaires.

mcpackieh 3y ago
Why'd google fail? Google has a lot more resources than any billionaire.

7e 3y ago

It’s not clear that it does make economic sense. Amazon may be burning margin for growth, or placing bets on the future relative costs of satellite vs 5G and cable/fiber which may not pan out.