5 ms·

The issue with personality disorders is whether something is a positive or negative is a subjective evaluation. Homosexuality was once considered a personality

The issue with personality disorders is whether something is a positive or negative is a subjective evaluation. Homosexuality was once considered a personality disorder. We consider narcissism a personality disorder, but we also reward narcissistic tendencies when one's extreme ego matches reality. Is there a single "correct" personality that we should all strive towards?

uoaei 3y ago
I believe your question is synonymous with "is there any 'correct' response to trauma?" which is equally hard to answer. Your point about which behaviors are considered disorders (e.g. homosexuality) is also well-taken. I am primarily basing my take on DSM-5's definitions.
WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
> Is there a single "correct" personality that we should all strive towards? Functional
- uoaei 3y ago
  Defined very narrowly by what "functions" are expected of you. Which is of course conditioned on social expectations vis a vis (subjective) value systems which may or may not align to some notion of "correctness", even in broadly utilitarian terms.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    i.e. showing up to work, doing well at school, dressing properly, keeping the correct company, filial piety...
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      > filial piety Interesting addition, and not one that a lot of people who had shitty childhoods would say is appropriate to include.
      - GloomyBoots 3y ago
        Some of us who had shitty childhoods would agree that filial piety and nurturing caregivers are good things even though we had neither.
        meepmorp 3y ago
        Not that not it's not nice to have, but in the particular context of the thread it was presented as a component of how to define what constitutes a functional person. Filial piety, owing respect ones parents, strikes me as quite different from things like being able to clothe and feed oneself, bathe regularly, and do productive work. Do you think that's a reasonable expectation for everyone?
        GloomyBoots 3y ago
        No, I agree. I think it’s unlike the others in that it’s a virtue and not just a basic life skill. I just disagreed with what I perceived to be a knee-jerk aversion to a virtue because it doesn’t apply in some circumstances.
      - coldtea 3y ago
        >Interesting addition Only interesting in ~ 2023. Was a standard addition for millenia...
        meepmorp 3y ago
        Yeah, and the idea that you need to have a relationship with and/or respect your parents purely because they produced you has been bad for people for millennia. Getting away from abusive people (if indeed that is the situation with one's parents) is a good thing, and pressure to have such a relationship despite the harm to oneself is a bad thing.
        coldtea 3y ago
        >has been bad for people for millennia I don't know, it's not like we have some successful high ground as a society...
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 3y ago
  Dr. Leo Marvin personality is what the literature is striving for
- Tao3300 3y ago
  Yeah, but sometimes imperative is just easier.
  - bandyaboot 3y ago
    Having a purely functional personality works just fine until you have to interact with the outside world.
truSo 3y ago
The only constraints on behavior should be literal harm. We keep trying the “strive for correct personality”; serf, slave, worker, and just end up with with ossified thinkers and banal brinksmanship; ho shit! he broke character! get ‘im! Put automation to getting bulk materials to stores and let locals “job” be crafting their personal kit. We’re just enabling rent seekers allowing the professional packaging industry buy up resources to sell us in cute cardboard boxes for high markup so their kids can play Xbox all day We tried globalism and all these things to try and open the world and “free minds” and we’ve just created an on rails path to ecological collapse. Longtermism is just religion trying to sound secular. Like we all said during Oceangate; there’s no escaping physics. Even if we reverse aging … enjoy cancer from wildfire smoke. This is just puerile madness at this point; adults pouting their mom and dad lied to them. We are all feeling guilty for all the literal harm and know the only real outcome is at best a massive die off, if not outright end of species. We’re well into “War is peace” level of delusion. The best path is intentionally reverse growing, and see what happens.
smt88 3y ago
> The issue with personality disorders is whether something is a positive or negative is a subjective evaluation. Homosexuality was once considered a personality disorder. It is (and was) easy to see that homosexuality is not a personality disorder because it doesn't harm anyone. On the other hand, narcissism and BPD are harmful to both the person exhibiting the associated behaviors and to the people around them. Narcissists may be incredibly successful in some cases, but they also self-report feelings of emptiness, loneliness, and compulsion.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  > It is (and was) easy to see that homosexuality is not a personality disorder because it doesn't harm anyone. That kind of rewriting of history ignores the torture people like Alan Turing went through for being found out. It dishonors them by writing them out of the past.
  - smt88 3y ago
    I have no idea what in my comment you're responding to. I'm saying that practicing homosexuality has always been victimless, whereas practicing narcissism is not. I'm not at all forgetting the millions of people persecuted for something that harms no one.

uoaei 3y ago

I believe your question is synonymous with "is there any 'correct' response to trauma?" which is equally hard to answer. Your point about which behaviors are considered disorders (e.g. homosexuality) is also well-taken. I am primarily basing my take on DSM-5's definitions.

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago

> Is there a single "correct" personality that we should all strive towards? Functional

uoaei 3y ago
Defined very narrowly by what "functions" are expected of you. Which is of course conditioned on social expectations vis a vis (subjective) value systems which may or may not align to some notion of "correctness", even in broadly utilitarian terms.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  i.e. showing up to work, doing well at school, dressing properly, keeping the correct company, filial piety...
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    > filial piety Interesting addition, and not one that a lot of people who had shitty childhoods would say is appropriate to include.
    - GloomyBoots 3y ago
      Some of us who had shitty childhoods would agree that filial piety and nurturing caregivers are good things even though we had neither.
      - meepmorp 3y ago
        Not that not it's not nice to have, but in the particular context of the thread it was presented as a component of how to define what constitutes a functional person. Filial piety, owing respect ones parents, strikes me as quite different from things like being able to clothe and feed oneself, bathe regularly, and do productive work. Do you think that's a reasonable expectation for everyone?
        GloomyBoots 3y ago
        No, I agree. I think it’s unlike the others in that it’s a virtue and not just a basic life skill. I just disagreed with what I perceived to be a knee-jerk aversion to a virtue because it doesn’t apply in some circumstances.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      >Interesting addition Only interesting in ~ 2023. Was a standard addition for millenia...
      - meepmorp 3y ago
        Yeah, and the idea that you need to have a relationship with and/or respect your parents purely because they produced you has been bad for people for millennia. Getting away from abusive people (if indeed that is the situation with one's parents) is a good thing, and pressure to have such a relationship despite the harm to oneself is a bad thing.
        coldtea 3y ago
        >has been bad for people for millennia I don't know, it's not like we have some successful high ground as a society...
0xdeadbeefbabe 3y ago
Dr. Leo Marvin personality is what the literature is striving for
Tao3300 3y ago
Yeah, but sometimes imperative is just easier.
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  Having a purely functional personality works just fine until you have to interact with the outside world.

truSo 3y ago

The only constraints on behavior should be literal harm. We keep trying the “strive for correct personality”; serf, slave, worker, and just end up with with ossified thinkers and banal brinksmanship; ho shit! he broke character! get ‘im! Put automation to getting bulk materials to stores and let locals “job” be crafting their personal kit. We’re just enabling rent seekers allowing the professional packaging industry buy up resources to sell us in cute cardboard boxes for high markup so their kids can play Xbox all day We tried globalism and all these things to try and open the world and “free minds” and we’ve just created an on rails path to ecological collapse. Longtermism is just religion trying to sound secular. Like we all said during Oceangate; there’s no escaping physics. Even if we reverse aging … enjoy cancer from wildfire smoke. This is just puerile madness at this point; adults pouting their mom and dad lied to them. We are all feeling guilty for all the literal harm and know the only real outcome is at best a massive die off, if not outright end of species. We’re well into “War is peace” level of delusion. The best path is intentionally reverse growing, and see what happens.

smt88 3y ago

> The issue with personality disorders is whether something is a positive or negative is a subjective evaluation. Homosexuality was once considered a personality disorder. It is (and was) easy to see that homosexuality is not a personality disorder because it doesn't harm anyone. On the other hand, narcissism and BPD are harmful to both the person exhibiting the associated behaviors and to the people around them. Narcissists may be incredibly successful in some cases, but they also self-report feelings of emptiness, loneliness, and compulsion.

drewcoo 3y ago
> It is (and was) easy to see that homosexuality is not a personality disorder because it doesn't harm anyone. That kind of rewriting of history ignores the torture people like Alan Turing went through for being found out. It dishonors them by writing them out of the past.
- smt88 3y ago
  I have no idea what in my comment you're responding to. I'm saying that practicing homosexuality has always been victimless, whereas practicing narcissism is not. I'm not at all forgetting the millions of people persecuted for something that harms no one.