4 ms·

Ask HN: Why can't I buy a MacBook that is connected to the cellular network

15 points by CPLX 3y ago

This just mystifies me. It's such a spectacularly and obviously useful addition, and technically almost trivial to implement, and yet it doesn't exist. My iPad Pro of course can do it, and so can my iPhone, but the totally maxed-out 16" MacBook Pro can't. I'm on the road constantly, and the ability to just use my laptop whenever/wherever I want without having to fuss with a hotspot, and to have graceful failover from wifi (like if I'm at a hotel on a Zoom call) would be worth quite a bit. I know I would pay basically any price for this, and I can't be the only one. And yet.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
Well, you obviously wouldn't pay "any price" for this... I suspect it's a trade-off for Apple and they concluded that people who might need that can easily hotspot through their phone and thus wouldn't necessarily pay hundreds for a built-in cellular modem that would also require a second cellular plan.
- CPLX 3y ago
  I’d pay $1,000 for it. Why don’t they make that conclusion about the iPad Pro then? Or any other device? Apple makes a ton of devices that have this capability costing a few hundred bucks it just seems nonsensical. The last time I saw discussion of this people said it had something to do with having to license the chipsets or something but it didn’t seem too compelling of a reason in that context.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    The reason has to be commercial. Clearly they think that the business case is not strong enough to make it worthwhile.
- hinata08 3y ago
  > that would also require a second cellular plan. The world isn't NA I would totally pay a second plan for that feature. I already have 2 5G plans at two different carriers, and two phones (I work on Android) And carriers here often offer a secondary SIM for your tablet or something, because it costs nothing and it's a convenience for some customers.
al2o3cr 3y ago
technically almost trivial to implement Having to split each machine SKU into many to accommodate different regions + carrier locking isn't as "trivial" as you think
- wryanzimmerman 3y ago
  They do this with iPads without need ing too many SKUs. And the iPad is less of a general market device than a MacBook with cellular would be!
dredmorbius 3y ago
You can pay a price of $200--300 for a mobile cellular hotspot which provides this capability. That's a hefty premium for a laptop, and is best approached with an external peripheral which multiple devices can share. <https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/best-mobile-hotspots https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/best-mobile-hotspots>
- CPLX 3y ago
  I have that. It sucks. It’s another thing to charge, another thing to lose, and so on. Also it isn’t connected to the laptop so when you open the laptop you also have to turn it on, wait for it to connect, and so on. Then you have to turn it off when not using it or the battery will die. Also it doesn’t actually do the thing I mentioned at all, which is serve as a graceful backup to whatever Wi-Fi the laptop is connected to. As a user experience it’s awful. And it’s such a common user experience. Like how many people are traveling and working from wherever on their MacBooks these days. It really is inexplicable.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    The other place where I've seen cellular modems is for WiFi routers such as the Turris Omnia, which can accept an optional LTE modem. See: <https://www.mybluelinux.com/installation-of-lte-modem-into-turris-omnia-router/ https://www.mybluelinux.com/installation-of-lte-modem-into-t...> Apple probably won't support this, but it seems to me the Framework laptop might. That ... doesn't seem to be the case presently but might be in future: <https://community.frame.work/t/5g-lte-expansion-card/1606 https://community.frame.work/t/5g-lte-expansion-card/1606> There are USB LTE modems as well, for as little as $20 US: <https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/verizon-4g-lte-usb-modem-uml295 https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/verizon-4g-lte-usb-modem-uml29...>
- hinata08 3y ago
  >a mobile cellular hotspot which provides this capability. That's Linux or Windows user gibberish. The point of a MacBook is that it just works. (Just like for iPads, that already offer this feature) If you have a MacBook, you can afford the 2€/mo option to have a secondary SIM for your device.
tacostakohashi 3y ago
Remember the good old days, when laptops could take PCMCIA / PC Card / Express Card peripherals?
- paulcole 3y ago
  Ah yes the good old days of my Sony Vaio with its 2 hour battery life and red-hot undercarriage. Give me the unexpandabe MacBook Air M2 any day.
schappim 3y ago
Qualcomm is the reason. They charge a royalty of between 2.275% and 3.25% of the net selling price of the device, depending on the cellular mode used.
- hypercube33 3y ago
  Yes but, didn't apple purchase Intel's wwan division a few years back? I'd assume they are using this in their phones but I may be mistaken. if they are why not use it in their SOC?
  - nateb2022 3y ago
    Apple currently uses Qualcomm modems in their devices. Qualcomm's CEO speculated that Apple would be transitioning to their own modems sometime in 2024: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/qualcomm-ceo-says-planning-for-apple-to-make-own-iphone-modems-from-2024-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/qualcomm-ceo-says-planning-f...
- magic_man 3y ago
  They do it for their ipads
  - schappim 3y ago
    Folks have said: Apple could do it easier on iPadOS, because (with its iOS antecedence), iPadOS has a range of WWAN management features that macOS did not possess. With the iPad-ification of Macs using Apple silicon, and the ongoing merging of iOS and macOS, this excuse is becoming less and less valid.
hinata08 3y ago
I think American companies assume that a cellular connection is too expensive. I had the same thought for Garmin devices, which have to be paired with the app on your phone to get online function (despite some features using wifi) If you need the phone with a specific app, you might as well use Strava. At least it's compatible with any phone (Garmin devices can only do the bluetooth pairing with specific models) Why don't these companies just give a sim card port, indeed.

15 points by CPLX 3y ago

mytailorisrich 3y ago

Well, you obviously wouldn't pay "any price" for this... I suspect it's a trade-off for Apple and they concluded that people who might need that can easily hotspot through their phone and thus wouldn't necessarily pay hundreds for a built-in cellular modem that would also require a second cellular plan.

CPLX 3y ago
I’d pay $1,000 for it. Why don’t they make that conclusion about the iPad Pro then? Or any other device? Apple makes a ton of devices that have this capability costing a few hundred bucks it just seems nonsensical. The last time I saw discussion of this people said it had something to do with having to license the chipsets or something but it didn’t seem too compelling of a reason in that context.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  The reason has to be commercial. Clearly they think that the business case is not strong enough to make it worthwhile.
hinata08 3y ago
> that would also require a second cellular plan. The world isn't NA I would totally pay a second plan for that feature. I already have 2 5G plans at two different carriers, and two phones (I work on Android) And carriers here often offer a secondary SIM for your tablet or something, because it costs nothing and it's a convenience for some customers.

al2o3cr 3y ago

technically almost trivial to implement Having to split each machine SKU into many to accommodate different regions + carrier locking isn't as "trivial" as you think

wryanzimmerman 3y ago
They do this with iPads without need ing too many SKUs. And the iPad is less of a general market device than a MacBook with cellular would be!

dredmorbius 3y ago

You can pay a price of $200--300 for a mobile cellular hotspot which provides this capability. That's a hefty premium for a laptop, and is best approached with an external peripheral which multiple devices can share. <https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/best-mobile-hotspots https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/best-mobile-hotspots>

CPLX 3y ago
I have that. It sucks. It’s another thing to charge, another thing to lose, and so on. Also it isn’t connected to the laptop so when you open the laptop you also have to turn it on, wait for it to connect, and so on. Then you have to turn it off when not using it or the battery will die. Also it doesn’t actually do the thing I mentioned at all, which is serve as a graceful backup to whatever Wi-Fi the laptop is connected to. As a user experience it’s awful. And it’s such a common user experience. Like how many people are traveling and working from wherever on their MacBooks these days. It really is inexplicable.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  The other place where I've seen cellular modems is for WiFi routers such as the Turris Omnia, which can accept an optional LTE modem. See: <https://www.mybluelinux.com/installation-of-lte-modem-into-turris-omnia-router/ https://www.mybluelinux.com/installation-of-lte-modem-into-t...> Apple probably won't support this, but it seems to me the Framework laptop might. That ... doesn't seem to be the case presently but might be in future: <https://community.frame.work/t/5g-lte-expansion-card/1606 https://community.frame.work/t/5g-lte-expansion-card/1606> There are USB LTE modems as well, for as little as $20 US: <https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/verizon-4g-lte-usb-modem-uml295 https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/verizon-4g-lte-usb-modem-uml29...>
hinata08 3y ago
>a mobile cellular hotspot which provides this capability. That's Linux or Windows user gibberish. The point of a MacBook is that it just works. (Just like for iPads, that already offer this feature) If you have a MacBook, you can afford the 2€/mo option to have a secondary SIM for your device.

tacostakohashi 3y ago

Remember the good old days, when laptops could take PCMCIA / PC Card / Express Card peripherals?

paulcole 3y ago
Ah yes the good old days of my Sony Vaio with its 2 hour battery life and red-hot undercarriage. Give me the unexpandabe MacBook Air M2 any day.

schappim 3y ago

Qualcomm is the reason. They charge a royalty of between 2.275% and 3.25% of the net selling price of the device, depending on the cellular mode used.

hypercube33 3y ago
Yes but, didn't apple purchase Intel's wwan division a few years back? I'd assume they are using this in their phones but I may be mistaken. if they are why not use it in their SOC?
- nateb2022 3y ago
  Apple currently uses Qualcomm modems in their devices. Qualcomm's CEO speculated that Apple would be transitioning to their own modems sometime in 2024: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/qualcomm-ceo-says-planning-for-apple-to-make-own-iphone-modems-from-2024-.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/qualcomm-ceo-says-planning-f...
magic_man 3y ago
They do it for their ipads
- schappim 3y ago
  Folks have said: Apple could do it easier on iPadOS, because (with its iOS antecedence), iPadOS has a range of WWAN management features that macOS did not possess. With the iPad-ification of Macs using Apple silicon, and the ongoing merging of iOS and macOS, this excuse is becoming less and less valid.

hinata08 3y ago

I think American companies assume that a cellular connection is too expensive. I had the same thought for Garmin devices, which have to be paired with the app on your phone to get online function (despite some features using wifi) If you need the phone with a specific app, you might as well use Strava. At least it's compatible with any phone (Garmin devices can only do the bluetooth pairing with specific models) Why don't these companies just give a sim card port, indeed.