5 ms·

Busiest day ever for electric vehicle charging predicted on UK roads

32 points by clouddrover 3y ago

baz00 3y ago
I doubt it. It's pissing it down all weekend and everyone I know has cancelled their plans.
- neilwilson 3y ago
  Ah, the traditional start to the UK summer holidays We'll miss it when France has turned into the Sahara desert.
- benj111 3y ago
  Are you a southerner? It's England. If you cancel plans because it's raining, you won't do anything. Plus the weather will have changed next week anyway.
PreInternet01 3y ago
Not sure what the situation is in the UK, but in France (which is really a developing country when it comes to EVs, similar to Italy), high-holiday season in 2022 brought very little charging delays. Autoroutes (toll roads) have very few EV chargers to begin with (although that's starting to change), but having to wait more than 20 minutes or so for a plug-in spot was a rare occasion. (In Holland, Belgium and Germany, fast-charge spots were available literally everywhere along major road networks). Source: have not driven a combustion-powered vehicle in the EU since 2019, despite very frequent road trips.
- r00fus 3y ago
  I was quite amazed at the difference in charging spot availability on French auto-route rest stops between even 2022 and this year. Last year: 1-2 charging spots, every other stop that had gas. This year: 6+ charging spots, almost every gas stop.
xxpor 3y ago
Given the almost exponential growth curve of EVs at this point, wouldn't almost every weekend be a new busiest day ever (maybe with holiday spikes keeping the title for a few months at a time)?
- kfarr 3y ago
  Yeah similar to how each summer is the "hottest summer on record" :/
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Keep in mind we are in a super el nino. We shouldnt expect the next several summers to be hotter.
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      We are just entering the high side of the ENSO cycle so we should indeed expect at least the next 1-2 summers to be significantly hotter than 2023.
      - nonethewiser 3y ago
        For however long the el nino lasts is what i mean. Usually they are 1-2 years.
- samwillis 3y ago
  No because there are some weekends where significantly more people travel. This weekend (beginning of school summer holidays) will be one of the largest travel days of the year, so you would get similar metrics for most cars on the road, or most petrol/gas sold. The sale growth of electric cars will not outstretch the fluctuations of sessional traffic.
  - sn0wf1re 3y ago
    That's kinda what they are saying though, no? That busy weekends will set and hold the record for a few months to a year and then they will be broken again as the number of EVs is growing in the steep section of the logistics curve right now.
NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
I rented an electric vehicle (Polestar 2) last time I was in the UK: it was really a tale in two acts ... I was staying at a hotel that had six or eight charging points in the car park and it was generally very convenient to do a quick charge to 80% and reasonably priced. Hertz wanted it back with 80% charge or they'd bill us, and finding an appropriate charger near Heathrow was ridiculous. We tried six different locations: the first one was in a hotel, it had only one charger which was occupied with no sign of the driver. Two were in the car parks of office buildings to which we had no access. One was at a Tesla delivery center and didn't have public access. One was at a gas station where all five of the charge points were unserviceable. The last one was at a single-purpose electric car charging station where there was a considerable queue. In the end, we had to drop it off with low charge and bite the bullet otherwise we were going to miss our flight.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  > Hertz wanted it back with 80% charge or they'd bill us Can you share what the cost was so I can complain to someone at Hertz? I think it's reasonable if they charge for fast charging the vehicle upon return, but it shouldn't be extortionate. Should be what a fast DC charge would be (~$15-$25) so they can cover equipment and energy costs to quick turnaround the vehicle for the next renter. One of the benefits of EVs is that electricity is somewhat ubiquitous (including airport rental facility parking garages), so it's not great UX when an auto rental company is incentivizing customers to chase down fast charging at the last minute before return vs just topping cars up when returned.
  - NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
    I pulled up the receipt; I don't actually remember the battery level when we dropped it off - I think it was about 45-50% ... looks like they charged £15.71 + VAT for the shortfall. Frankly, if I'd known it would be so reasonable I would not have bothered and spent an extra hour and a half in the Cathay First Class lounge.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
Neil44 3y ago
I always wondered what the queueing situation is at chargers since most locations aren't physically set up for it. You'd be really annoyed if you were waiting nearby for ages for a free charger then someone else swooped in. Or they were waiting too but you weren't aware so now you're both mad. The chargers should have ticketing built in.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Someone like Tesla could ensure that queues never happen. Not by building an infinite number of chargers (clearly impossible), but by telling users to continue onwards with their journey early as soon as someone else shows up who is more in need of charge. Using that technique, and relying on the fact different users are going in different directions, demand can be shifted to other sites hundreds of miles away and many hours into the future. You can also shift demand onto users home chargers (make them arrive home with less charge).
  - TillE 3y ago
    "Please leave now" sounds like terrible UX, especially if you've gone off to eat somewhere while your vehicle charges. Most of the time, the vast majority of your charging should be at home. For edge cases like this, well, it is pretty cheap to build out charging infrastructure at any highway rest stop. Longer term, there are plenty of possible solutions with an SDV public transit system.
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      You don't say "Please leave now". You say "Recommended charge time: 15 minutes. Any stay over 25 minutes will be charged an extra parking fee, or you can move the car to a non-electric parking space for free.". You don't need every user to obey - just ~half of users following your recommendations should keep enough spots free for more incoming cars (which Tesla can predict pretty accurately ~an hour into the future)
    - kccqzy 3y ago
      Idle fees and parking fees are a solution. Say $1/min after charging has finished. Feel free to eat elsewhere while your vehicle racks up huge parking fees. By the way, I think with how fast DCFC is becoming, we are currently in a weird situation where there's still time for people to have a meal. In the near future, charging would be so fast that you basically have to stay with the vehicle.
bluGill 3y ago
This should be taken as a sign that the UK needs to build a better train network so less people feel the need to drive. Electric cars are better than gas/diesel, but they are still much worse than trains for safety, cost, and environment.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Trains cant do last mile, even in a small country pike the UK
  - bluGill 3y ago
    They can get close enough when paired with a good bus system and bike rental. Most people are not going to rural farms, they are going to places that could have transit.
throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
In case anyone didn't know: most charger manufacturers are terrible. Terrible software, terrible hardware. Like, we hired a kid out of high school and he's googling what HTTP is bad. Basic features of common standards just unimplemented. Seems like they have no tests at all. Gas station pumps are more advanced. You buy a charger and try to get them on the phone to get technical specs, and they literally ignore you. Rolling out new charging infrastructure is being delayed for months and months because they can't get some basic features implemented.

32 points by clouddrover 3y ago

baz00 3y ago

I doubt it. It's pissing it down all weekend and everyone I know has cancelled their plans.

neilwilson 3y ago
Ah, the traditional start to the UK summer holidays We'll miss it when France has turned into the Sahara desert.
benj111 3y ago
Are you a southerner? It's England. If you cancel plans because it's raining, you won't do anything. Plus the weather will have changed next week anyway.

PreInternet01 3y ago

Not sure what the situation is in the UK, but in France (which is really a developing country when it comes to EVs, similar to Italy), high-holiday season in 2022 brought very little charging delays. Autoroutes (toll roads) have very few EV chargers to begin with (although that's starting to change), but having to wait more than 20 minutes or so for a plug-in spot was a rare occasion. (In Holland, Belgium and Germany, fast-charge spots were available literally everywhere along major road networks). Source: have not driven a combustion-powered vehicle in the EU since 2019, despite very frequent road trips.

r00fus 3y ago
I was quite amazed at the difference in charging spot availability on French auto-route rest stops between even 2022 and this year. Last year: 1-2 charging spots, every other stop that had gas. This year: 6+ charging spots, almost every gas stop.

xxpor 3y ago

Given the almost exponential growth curve of EVs at this point, wouldn't almost every weekend be a new busiest day ever (maybe with holiday spikes keeping the title for a few months at a time)?

kfarr 3y ago
Yeah similar to how each summer is the "hottest summer on record" :/
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Keep in mind we are in a super el nino. We shouldnt expect the next several summers to be hotter.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    We are just entering the high side of the ENSO cycle so we should indeed expect at least the next 1-2 summers to be significantly hotter than 2023.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      For however long the el nino lasts is what i mean. Usually they are 1-2 years.
samwillis 3y ago
No because there are some weekends where significantly more people travel. This weekend (beginning of school summer holidays) will be one of the largest travel days of the year, so you would get similar metrics for most cars on the road, or most petrol/gas sold. The sale growth of electric cars will not outstretch the fluctuations of sessional traffic.
- sn0wf1re 3y ago
  That's kinda what they are saying though, no? That busy weekends will set and hold the record for a few months to a year and then they will be broken again as the number of EVs is growing in the steep section of the logistics curve right now.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago

I rented an electric vehicle (Polestar 2) last time I was in the UK: it was really a tale in two acts ... I was staying at a hotel that had six or eight charging points in the car park and it was generally very convenient to do a quick charge to 80% and reasonably priced. Hertz wanted it back with 80% charge or they'd bill us, and finding an appropriate charger near Heathrow was ridiculous. We tried six different locations: the first one was in a hotel, it had only one charger which was occupied with no sign of the driver. Two were in the car parks of office buildings to which we had no access. One was at a Tesla delivery center and didn't have public access. One was at a gas station where all five of the charge points were unserviceable. The last one was at a single-purpose electric car charging station where there was a considerable queue. In the end, we had to drop it off with low charge and bite the bullet otherwise we were going to miss our flight.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
> Hertz wanted it back with 80% charge or they'd bill us Can you share what the cost was so I can complain to someone at Hertz? I think it's reasonable if they charge for fast charging the vehicle upon return, but it shouldn't be extortionate. Should be what a fast DC charge would be (~$15-$25) so they can cover equipment and energy costs to quick turnaround the vehicle for the next renter. One of the benefits of EVs is that electricity is somewhat ubiquitous (including airport rental facility parking garages), so it's not great UX when an auto rental company is incentivizing customers to chase down fast charging at the last minute before return vs just topping cars up when returned.
- NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
  I pulled up the receipt; I don't actually remember the battery level when we dropped it off - I think it was about 45-50% ... looks like they charged £15.71 + VAT for the shortfall. Frankly, if I'd known it would be so reasonable I would not have bothered and spent an extra hour and a half in the Cathay First Class lounge.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago

Neil44 3y ago

I always wondered what the queueing situation is at chargers since most locations aren't physically set up for it. You'd be really annoyed if you were waiting nearby for ages for a free charger then someone else swooped in. Or they were waiting too but you weren't aware so now you're both mad. The chargers should have ticketing built in.

londons_explore 3y ago
Someone like Tesla could ensure that queues never happen. Not by building an infinite number of chargers (clearly impossible), but by telling users to continue onwards with their journey early as soon as someone else shows up who is more in need of charge. Using that technique, and relying on the fact different users are going in different directions, demand can be shifted to other sites hundreds of miles away and many hours into the future. You can also shift demand onto users home chargers (make them arrive home with less charge).
- TillE 3y ago
  "Please leave now" sounds like terrible UX, especially if you've gone off to eat somewhere while your vehicle charges. Most of the time, the vast majority of your charging should be at home. For edge cases like this, well, it is pretty cheap to build out charging infrastructure at any highway rest stop. Longer term, there are plenty of possible solutions with an SDV public transit system.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    You don't say "Please leave now". You say "Recommended charge time: 15 minutes. Any stay over 25 minutes will be charged an extra parking fee, or you can move the car to a non-electric parking space for free.". You don't need every user to obey - just ~half of users following your recommendations should keep enough spots free for more incoming cars (which Tesla can predict pretty accurately ~an hour into the future)
  - kccqzy 3y ago
    Idle fees and parking fees are a solution. Say $1/min after charging has finished. Feel free to eat elsewhere while your vehicle racks up huge parking fees. By the way, I think with how fast DCFC is becoming, we are currently in a weird situation where there's still time for people to have a meal. In the near future, charging would be so fast that you basically have to stay with the vehicle.

bluGill 3y ago

This should be taken as a sign that the UK needs to build a better train network so less people feel the need to drive. Electric cars are better than gas/diesel, but they are still much worse than trains for safety, cost, and environment.

nonethewiser 3y ago
Trains cant do last mile, even in a small country pike the UK
- bluGill 3y ago
  They can get close enough when paired with a good bus system and bike rental. Most people are not going to rural farms, they are going to places that could have transit.

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago

In case anyone didn't know: most charger manufacturers are terrible. Terrible software, terrible hardware. Like, we hired a kid out of high school and he's googling what HTTP is bad. Basic features of common standards just unimplemented. Seems like they have no tests at all. Gas station pumps are more advanced. You buy a charger and try to get them on the phone to get technical specs, and they literally ignore you. Rolling out new charging infrastructure is being delayed for months and months because they can't get some basic features implemented.