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Texas worker accused of being on drugs was dying of heatstroke
- mvdtnz 3y ago> Texas’s Republican governor, Greg Abbott, signed a controversial bill into law on 14 June that prohibits local municipalities from enacting heat protection standards for construction workers. The bill nullifies ordinances previously passed in Austin and Dallas that mandated 10-minute breaks for workers every four hours. How often are these guys taking breaks? 10 minutes every four hours seems like not nearly enough break time even in normal conditions. Yet somehow the governor signed a bill saying they're not entitled to even that? What is going on in USA with workers right? Is this normal?
- cozzyd 3y agoI would hope most companies would give more breaks than that, but the fact that it's mandated suggests that some don't...
- mrguyorama 3y ago[flagged]
- rootusrootus 3y ago> Is this normal? This is Texas. Other states have different rules. For comparison, at a heat index of 100F, Oregon requires 30 minute breaks every 1 hour. Here is more detail (PDF): https://osha.oregon.gov/OSHAPubs/factsheets/fs90.pdf https://osha.oregon.gov/OSHAPubs/factsheets/fs90.pdf
- mustacheemperor 3y agoUnfortunately, only a minority of state OSHA codes include heat safety. Federal OSHA is working on rules, but they seem to be a long way off. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/osha-heat-standard-construction-safety/687970/ https://www.constructiondive.com/news/osha-heat-standard-con...
- fakedang 3y agoDo American politicians have a thing against letting the common people survive? Jeez, I was in the Middle East, and even the sheikhs and kings there mandated that no outdoors work be done in the afternoons or on days with extremely high temperatures. That is, 11 am to 4 pm absolutely blocked, no ifs or buts. Work in the 5 searing summer months happened in the night.
- zbrozek 3y agoHere in the states, municipal construction hours ordinances usually force work to occur during the day.
- mptest 3y ago>Do american politicians One side much much much more than the other. Only one side banning mandated water breaks.
- mrguyorama 3y agoRemember, the side that is banning water breaks in lethal heat for blue collar workers are the party that's here to protect the little guy from coastal elites!
- deprecative 3y agoDon't forget the blue collar workers being denied breaks in lethal conditions are the same people voting for these people. Zero sympathy at this point. They want it? They can have it.
- lamontcg 3y agowhoa there, you're forgetting the tan suit scandals, terrorist fist bumps and a couple of dick pic incidents. clearly both sides have their issues.
- mrguyorama 3y agoJust you wait until you find out about that laptop that totally exists but uh fedex lost or those email servers that they couldn't even pin anything on her for or that time Hilary was kinda bad at her job and let some americans die in an embassy out of a lack of caution but she couldn't be punished because punishing top level politicians for being mediocre at their jobs would open an entire can of worms that would actually help improve things and oust bad actors so nope can't do that!
- missingcolours 3y agoTo clarify, the state didn't override those specific ordinances. They passed a law severely limiting the ability of cities to make ordinances in general; my understanding is that these specific ordinances seem to simply be the ones the news media has latched onto to create a narrative.
- throwaway5959 3y agoSo it’s worse than what the media is saying? Because the state has exerted even more control over local authorities? Not sure what you’re getting at here.
- nocoiner 3y agoCorrect. The “small/limited government” state legislature took away all sorts of rights from individual communities’ self-determination - involving things like running elections (but only in counties above a certain population size, meaning that exactly, uh, one large, diverse county was actually subject to this law) or mandating standards for animal shelters.
- tzs 3y agoAs far as animals go the Texas law says up near the top where it is saying what it covers that it: > does not, except as expressly provided by this Act, affect the authority of a municipality to adopt, enforce, or maintain an ordinance or rule that relates to the control, care, management, welfare, or health and safety of animals; so it at least gives the appearance that it isn't going to allow people to just do whatever they want with animals. But then much farther down in the miscellaneous provisions section it says: Sec. 229.901. AUTHORITY TO REGULATE ANIMAL BUSINESSES. (a) A municipality may not adopt, enforce, or maintain an ordinance or rule that restricts, regulates, limits, or otherwise impedes a business involving the breeding, care, treatment, or sale of animals or animal products, including a veterinary practice, or the business ’s transactions if the person operating that business holds a license for the business that is issued by the federal government or a state. (b) Except as provided by this subsection, a municipality may not adopt, enforce, or maintain an ordinance or rule that restricts, regulates, limits, or otherwise impedes the retail sale of dogs or cats. A municipality may enforce or maintain an ordinance or rule adopted before April 1, 2023, that restricts, regulates, limits, or otherwise impedes the retail sale of dogs or cats until the state adopts statewide regulation for the retail sale of dogs or cats, as applicable.
- shapefrog 3y ago> prohibits local municipalities from enacting Freedom.
- WeylandYutani 3y agoForget the law. What kind of slave driver are you when you won't even let your employees have a drink? I suppose this is why we need laws because morality and ethics are beyond some of us.
- LexGray 3y agoI have a friend in the call center world. You are required to take the next call before you finish your notes on the previous and to never mute yourself. It is nearly straight torture to keep people talking two hours at a time with penalties if you are heard swallowing. A lot of employers love our quasi-dystopian monitor every moment future.
- ithkuil 3y agoSomebody should sell an AI voice filter that edits the gulps
- arp242 3y agoThis article[1] has the stated reasons (this comment is not an endorsement, just informative): Republican lawmakers pushing the new law have said it eliminates a “hodgepodge of onerous and burdensome regulations” that Texas businesses face. The effort aims to prevent cities and counties from enacting progressive policies that counter the state Republican supermajority’s aims. “For too long, progressive municipal officials and agencies have made Texas small businesses jump through contradictory and confusing hoops,” said the Republican state representative Dustin Burrows, who introduced the bill. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/23/greg-abbott-texas-governor-bill-water-breaks-heatwave https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/23/greg-abbott-...
- z500 3y agoHere comes big government to save us from small government.
- meinmissoula 3y agoThe comment I'm responding to goes against several HN guidelines, but I'm hoping I can use the opportunity to turn it away from low-effort trolling into an opportunity for education and clarity. The 2-party system in the US causes hundreds of distinct groups and ideologies to be lumped into either a D or R, regardless of any ideological cohesion to any particular label- left, right, liberal, conservative, authoritarian, libertarian, etc. The state-level government in Texas is controlled by the Republican party, but specifically by a neoconservative, nationalist, social conservative-Christian cohort. The fiscal conservatives and libertarian small-government conservatives are essentially powerless, minority members of either the Democrat or Republican party, and individuals whose views match those labels will likely vote split-ticket in most elections rather than a straight-party voting pattern. In essence, while the comment I'm responding to is alluding to a hypocrisy of beliefs, a better interpretation is that the "small government" conservatives don't really hold any power in the Texas state Republican establishment. To the extent that any of them vote R, they're mostly doing so in a "choose which of 2 bad choices seems least bad" context.
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- nonameiguess 3y agoLast time I did outdoor physical work in Texas was in the Army at Fort Hood. Here are the Army guidelines on work/rest intervals and fluid intake: https://www.moore.army.mil/MCoE/MCoE-Safety/content/PDF/Heat%20CAT%20Fluid%20Consumption%20Guide%20%202015.pdf https://www.moore.army.mil/MCoE/MCoE-Safety/content/PDF/Heat... Central Texas has been straddling that red/black line for the past month, and I suspect this would be classified as "moderate work," so that would require 40 minutes of rest for every 20 minutes of work. Thankfully, Gov. Abbott cannot make it illegal for the Army to enforce this.
- LorenPechtel 3y agoThus tripling the labor costs. Better a few peons die than business face that!
- mrguyorama 3y ago>What is going on in USA with workers right? Is this normal? This is Texas, which is having a competition with Florida to see who can "own" the "libs" harder, which usually means causing harm to people who already have mediocre situations because it upsets people who aren't heartless.
- MR4D 3y agoFor people who are interested, I highly recommend reading the bill. It's actually fairly straightforward, so I won't regurgitate the specific text, as you can easily read it on Page 6, lines 10 through 20. [0] The main situation that the state is trying to prevent is conflicting laws. Let me give you an example - let's say you are building a road, which happens to travel through multiple jurisdictions. Now in one jurisdiction, there may be a rule that requires one set of employee benefits and different benefits in other jurisdictions. Now, which one should the contractor follow? What happens when they conflict? And it's easy to be in two jurisdictions at once, which really causes a problem. Now clearly this example doesn't hold because the government builds roads, not private entities, so this activity is excluded from the law. But it is as simple illustration. One side note - a friend of mine has a house that sits on a county and city border, and is taxed in 2 different cities and 2 different counties here on the outskirts of Houston. He gets multiple tax bills per year, and doing anything to his house is a nightmare because of the different codes (yes, he has multiple building codes in different parts of his house). This is what the state is trying to reduce. Finally, from reading the article, it looks like the employer is guilty of negligence, and probably gross negligence at that. Any rational human being in Texas gives people breaks, and if this article is at all accurate, someone needs to go to jail for a really long time...preferably without air conditioning. [0] - https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/pdf/HB02127F.pdf https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/88R/billtext/pdf/HB02127F....
- mvdtnz 3y agoI don't see how there could be a meaningful conflict with any sanely written laws. One jurisdiction says 10 minute break per 2 hours, one jurisdiction says 15 minute break per 3 hours? Just give them a 15 minute break per 2 hours. Why split hairs? They're human beings.
- baggy_trough 3y ago> sanely written laws This part is the problem.
- Jeff_Brown 3y agoLaws that conflict would be a problem. But what's an example? If one law says give employees a 10 minute break every 4 hours, and another law says give them a 15 minute break every 4 hours, that's not a conflict -- it's easy to obey both laws.
- ikekkdcjkfke 3y agoBattery powered climate jackets? Exists but should be more ubiquitous
- reaperman 3y agoIn both Texas and Louisiana I've seen two solutions to extend the working periods in between rests. But on the hottest days, no one should be working more than 15 minutes at a time outdoors. This isn't unreasonable -- we stop work for lightning storms as well and no one thinks that's an undue burden on business. Those two solutions are: - Low humidity days: Hyper-adsorbent textiles that you "fill up" with water and they evaporate over time, lowering the apparent temperature. - High humidity days: Two enormous chest freezers full of special phase-change "ice" packs. Due to some inherent properties of the universe (thermodynamics) it's best if the phase change happens around 50-60 degrees F or so, instead of at freezing. So it's not pure water. One chest freezer is for "frozen" packs. Workers take the packs from these and load them into pockets in special vests. Then after 30 minutes or so you remove them and put them in the other chest for "used" packs and reload yours with fresh ones. Then after lunch break the used packs from the morning should be frozen again. These techniques increase the amount of time someone can safely work outside by about 15 minutes per hour. Chemical plants in Louisiana are generally quite good at limiting the time that contractors and direct employees spend working outside on hot days. If the limit for today's temperature is "45 minutes per hour", then ice packs can extend that to continuous work. If the limit is "15 minutes per hour" then with ice packs workers could work 30 minutes per hour, but would have to be indoors in A/C for the other 30 minutes. Working 15 minutes every hour is very inefficient, but it's moral, humane, and in the long run calculated to be cheaper than the lost time of large teams being derailed by depositions in a wrongful death lawsuit and less productive teams for months until that's all resolved. Often instead of having workers work 15 minutes per hour, we'd just reschedule them for 1-2 weeks later when it's a bit cooler again.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago> we'd just reschedule them for 1-2 weeks later when it's a bit cooler again That makes a lot of sense. My wife used to work for a lawn service company and when it was predicted to be above a certain temperature, they'd just start a couple hours earlier in the day to avoid most of the heat.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoThe heat index has been 110F in Austin for the past 3 weeks and I see construction workers leaving job sites every weekday about 4 pm. I'm wondering how they manage their physical condition in extreme heat without cooling and not having a heart attack. I'll have to remember to ask about how often they grab something to drink or take a break during such extreme heat.
- baremetal 3y agoI drink approx 1 gallon of water every two hours or so when I work outside in the heat. Best to work 6am to noon rather than afternoon. The sun intensity is worse than the heat, imo.
- RecycledEle 3y agoI lost my career as a programmer when a company decided my diabetic low blood sugar (one time) was proof I was a drug addict. I begged for OJ that they had right there, and they refused. There need to be criminal penalties for refusing medical aide to someone. It should be OK to demand a drug test, but not to refuse medical aide.
- notsound 3y agoDid you talk to a lawyer about this? This situation sounds really suspicious (where they trying to illegally fire you?).
- LorenPechtel 3y agoCareer?? How would one unjust firing end your career?
- mrguyorama 3y agoPlenty of industries where "Fired for a drug policy violation" means never working in that industry again.
- itsyaboi 3y agoAnd is "programming" one of them?
- galleywest200 3y agoDepends on the field.
- foxyv 3y agoI can't imagine it would be that hard to make a body temperature sensor that beeps when body temp exceeds 101F. I know you can get an athletic one that pairs to your bike computer for less than $300. It may be a good idea to use something like that for working in dangerous heat index levels. Seems like a great startup idea for preventing heat injuries at work sites. https://corebodytemp.com/ https://corebodytemp.com/
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoIt's not: I worked for a company that was doing exactly that (with some other features). But at the same time, it's not hard to set a timer on your phone or watch to take a periodic water break either. And save yourself having to buy yet one more gadget.
- LorenPechtel 3y agoA sensor is more reliable as it protects you against local effects. (Say, working around machinery that puts out enough heat to change the protection you need.)
- foxyv 3y agoOne thing a lot of people don't take into account is that roads and un-shaded rock can increase perceived temperature by 10-20 degrees. I used to work as a rock climbing instructor and the top of the rock would be over 120F. Same for roads, which makes road construction particularly dangerous. For a while I worked weekends at the race track, all of the drunk people would drop like flies if it went over 100F. The pavement temperature was 150F+. It was like standing on a griddle. You could feel the radiated heat trying to cook your skin.
- LorenPechtel 3y agoEven without introducing things like roads I have found it infeasible to get a reasonable air temperature measurement while hiking--something could probably be 3D printed but I don't have one. Garmin, what possessed you to make a *black* temperature sensor? And provide no proper sun shield for it? (Although I'm not sure how effective a sun shield would be. I've got a thermometer in the back yard that is inside a manufacturer's sun shield--vented white plastic--and it still can report 15 degrees above actual even though it's under a tree.) Even putting it something like an inch deep in my pack has produced readings of 90+ when hiking away from the sun for an extended period.
- ncr100 3y agoHow much of the Accusation part was due to racism? Like, implicit bias based upon the race of the now dead man?
- sillywalk 3y agoI think it's the case that every worker who dies in Texas was "on drugs".