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Ukraine in NATO Would Be a Disaster

5 points by hackandthink 3y ago

torsday 3y ago
> it would be impossible to know whether one or other member of the Ukrainian delegation was actually working for the Russians. That. That's the big argument. And it's a terrible argument.
elintknower 3y ago
End the suffering. End the war. Putin is a thug and Zelensky is a zealot. Painful as a progressive american to see our country become a belligerent proponent AGAIN for useless conflict, death and war mongering.
- clipsy 3y ago
  > End the suffering. End the war. How?
- synetic 3y ago
  Is there a circumstance in which an invasion of a country on the periphery of NATO is worthwhile for the U.S. to get involved with in your mind? If so what would such a circumstance look at? From my perspective we have seen Russia involved in “invasions” of a sort in Belarus, Moldova, Ukraine 2014, Georgia, Armenia, and one of the stans. At what point does it become morally acceptable to thwart Russian imperial ambitions? Russia is Europe’s last imperial power and they have been quite belligerent.
- Timon3 3y ago
  > Painful as a progressive american to see our country become a belligerent proponent AGAIN for useless conflict, death and war mongering. Why is defending yourself against an invader "useless conflict, death and war mongering"?
cheese_van 3y ago
>In practical terms, Ukraine would probably emerge very quickly as the leader of a hard-line group of anti-Russian nations, calling always for a more confrontational policy and more hawkish positions and statements about Russia. It seems rather in the natural order of things that an invaded country would be antipathetic to their invaders, yes, and might hold those objections post-war. Perhaps that might explain similar sentiments from the long-memory Finns. I do hope and believe, perhaps without merit, that should European political gravity and intellectual influence shift eastward, that the European story may benefit in surprising ways. The author seems to disagree.

5 points by hackandthink 3y ago

> it would be impossible to know whether one or other member of the Ukrainian delegation was actually working for the Russians. That. That's the big argument. And it's a terrible argument.

elintknower 3y ago

End the suffering. End the war. Putin is a thug and Zelensky is a zealot. Painful as a progressive american to see our country become a belligerent proponent AGAIN for useless conflict, death and war mongering.

clipsy 3y ago
> End the suffering. End the war. How?
synetic 3y ago
Is there a circumstance in which an invasion of a country on the periphery of NATO is worthwhile for the U.S. to get involved with in your mind? If so what would such a circumstance look at? From my perspective we have seen Russia involved in “invasions” of a sort in Belarus, Moldova, Ukraine 2014, Georgia, Armenia, and one of the stans. At what point does it become morally acceptable to thwart Russian imperial ambitions? Russia is Europe’s last imperial power and they have been quite belligerent.
Timon3 3y ago
> Painful as a progressive american to see our country become a belligerent proponent AGAIN for useless conflict, death and war mongering. Why is defending yourself against an invader "useless conflict, death and war mongering"?

cheese_van 3y ago

>In practical terms, Ukraine would probably emerge very quickly as the leader of a hard-line group of anti-Russian nations, calling always for a more confrontational policy and more hawkish positions and statements about Russia. It seems rather in the natural order of things that an invaded country would be antipathetic to their invaders, yes, and might hold those objections post-war. Perhaps that might explain similar sentiments from the long-memory Finns. I do hope and believe, perhaps without merit, that should European political gravity and intellectual influence shift eastward, that the European story may benefit in surprising ways. The author seems to disagree.