4 ms·

This article spends most of its time outlining relations between _domestic police_ -- local departments and officers -- with the public, and doesn't say a ton a

This article spends most of its time outlining relations between _domestic police_ -- local departments and officers -- with the public, and doesn't say a ton about the FBI, save for a blurb about statistics here and there... its substance with regard to the implications of the title is lacking. I'd really like to understand more about the anti-FBI sentiment that's going around.

gjsman-1000 3y ago
Well, I'll give you a quick summary for why a conservative might be upset. You do not have to agree with these issues at all or their interpretation, but a short list: 1. Anything Trump; because Hunter Biden. You might argue about "whataboutism," but "whataboutism" is what protects us from flagrantly biased institutions. This is also going on today with IRS "whistleblowers" claiming the IRS recommended felonies on Hunter, but the DOJ offered way too sweet a deal. 2. Catholics. Specifically, the memo which targeted "Radical-Traditional Catholic Extremists." It also attempted to define the term by theological distinctions (do they like Vatican II? Do they have disdain for modern Popes?), cited sources that are otherwise banned for bias in the FBI (the SPLC), and advocated "the exploration of new avenues for tripwire and source development." The memo also did not list any potential crimes that they were concerned such a group would commit. Christopher Wray retracted the memo immediately saying it was "appalling" but has been extremely cagey on answering questions as to how such a memo was even written. 3. The FBI, according to The Washington Post reporting (not even conservative media) admitted that they misused a Section 702 database, illegally, 278,000 times that they know of in just over a year. Did it against all sorts of people - protestors, BLM, Jan 6 suspects, basically managed to piss off everyone. 4. "Pro-Life" Pregnancy Centers were violently attacked over 100 times as of October 2022 since Roe v. Wade was overturned, with firebombings and similar. No arrests were made for any of them. When asked about the FBI's seemingly blind eye at the time in a Congressional hearing, Merrick Garland claimed the attackers were too "clever" by "doing this at night, in the dark." This explanation was not thrilling. 5. Mark Houck was a pro-lifer, and father of seven, who was recently acquitted unanimously after being accused of violating the FACE Act (basically, obstructing access to an abortion clinic). Now, that's a potential crime that does involve the FBI, but the FBI arrested him by raiding his house with a SWAT team for no apparent reason other than to terrorize his family. And that's not my assessment - 22 members of Congress demanded a plausible basis for sending a SWAT team over this alleged crime, and they claim to still not have had an answer. Republicans put him in the audience for the last State of the Union in protest against Biden.
- mydriasis 3y ago
  Yikes, they're really striking out across the board!
- kmos17 3y ago
  This whole « FBI losing trust from people » looks to me basically because for the first time they are actually doing their job in going after trump’s flagrant law breaking and the Jan 6 attempt to overthrow the election, and conservatives are not liking it.
34tlkj45y 3y ago
1) Election interference. 2) Refusing to prosecute the Bidens even though they already had to show (via threat) by the House of the vast amount of evidence of all the bribes the Bidens have been doing with countries including Ukraine and China.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  u/34tlkj45y is a 19 hour old account pushing narratives about Bidens / Ukraine / China. Low-hanging fruit as spam accounts go. The serious ones will have a longer history and put out longer points. Make of that what you will
Amezarak 3y ago
For most of the FBI’s history, it was run by J Edgar Hoover, who used it to spy on and blackmail innocent Americans and as a political weapon. It’s still the same organization, from spying to entrapment to outright murder to authoritarian political influence (and don’t be mistaken - it’s not on any particular party’s side, it’s on the FBI’s side.) The real question is my mind is how some people came to be convinced it was respectable organization - maybe through its portrayal in pop culture shows? Just institutional power?
more_corn 3y ago
We can’t have a complete conversation about the anti-FBI sentiment without mentioning how a twice impeached former president, who is facing a half dozen federal indictments, drummed up said anti-FBI sentiment in order to discredit our federal investigative bureau in hopes of looking less guilty. He is literally attacking the institutions of our country to distract from his crimes. I would expect law and order conservatives not to stand for such blatant self serving behavior.
- helaoban 3y ago
  We can’t have a complete conversation about the anti-FBI sentiment without mentioning their very, very long rap sheet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
  - jfengel 3y ago
    They do have a long rap sheet, but many of those were a long time ago. This is in the news because something has changed. There are a great many, largely on the left, who distrust the FBI for crimes they committed under Hoover. Many of those actions were actually supported by the right. "The FBI Loses The Public", as the article claims in the present tense. That is mostly on the right, and largely because the FBI is closely involved in investigating and prosecuting right-wing political figures over the past 7 years. Many (including me) believe that they are doing so correctly. But there are plenty who still remember (as you do) the many crimes they committed before being substantially reorganized after 1976: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
    - Amezarak 3y ago
      Nearly everything on the “FBI controversies” page the GP links is dated much more recently than 1976, and it’s hardly comprehensive. For example, it doesn’t mention the continual entrapment of often mentally ill US Muslims, using informants to persuade and lead them into committing crimes, for which they were then arrested and charged. Only recently has the main target (but not only) of such activity changed to right wingers. We could probably easily add a dozen more subsections to that page from the last two decades. Some were mentioned in these comments already. It seems to me that television and movies convinced a lot of modern conservatives that the FBI were good guys, while modern liberals have decided they’re good guys simply because they’ve been overzealously targeting their political enemies. But that’s simply by accident, not because of any actual ideological alignment. You’re also forgetting that the net achievements of the Church committee were basically nil. The government succeeded in destroying lots of records and ultimately was able to continue nearly all the same behavior and worse anyway. Since then we’ve had murders of American citizens, torture scandals, national surveillance beyond anything Hoover could dream. Heck, just a few years ago, the CIA got busted spying on Congress after it began investigating CIA crimes, then lied about it, got caught red-handed, and the perp not only got off scot-free, but is regarded as a Resistance hero.
jollyllama 3y ago
Read up on U.S. Private Vaults

gjsman-1000 3y ago

Well, I'll give you a quick summary for why a conservative might be upset. You do not have to agree with these issues at all or their interpretation, but a short list: 1. Anything Trump; because Hunter Biden. You might argue about "whataboutism," but "whataboutism" is what protects us from flagrantly biased institutions. This is also going on today with IRS "whistleblowers" claiming the IRS recommended felonies on Hunter, but the DOJ offered way too sweet a deal. 2. Catholics. Specifically, the memo which targeted "Radical-Traditional Catholic Extremists." It also attempted to define the term by theological distinctions (do they like Vatican II? Do they have disdain for modern Popes?), cited sources that are otherwise banned for bias in the FBI (the SPLC), and advocated "the exploration of new avenues for tripwire and source development." The memo also did not list any potential crimes that they were concerned such a group would commit. Christopher Wray retracted the memo immediately saying it was "appalling" but has been extremely cagey on answering questions as to how such a memo was even written. 3. The FBI, according to The Washington Post reporting (not even conservative media) admitted that they misused a Section 702 database, illegally, 278,000 times that they know of in just over a year. Did it against all sorts of people - protestors, BLM, Jan 6 suspects, basically managed to piss off everyone. 4. "Pro-Life" Pregnancy Centers were violently attacked over 100 times as of October 2022 since Roe v. Wade was overturned, with firebombings and similar. No arrests were made for any of them. When asked about the FBI's seemingly blind eye at the time in a Congressional hearing, Merrick Garland claimed the attackers were too "clever" by "doing this at night, in the dark." This explanation was not thrilling. 5. Mark Houck was a pro-lifer, and father of seven, who was recently acquitted unanimously after being accused of violating the FACE Act (basically, obstructing access to an abortion clinic). Now, that's a potential crime that does involve the FBI, but the FBI arrested him by raiding his house with a SWAT team for no apparent reason other than to terrorize his family. And that's not my assessment - 22 members of Congress demanded a plausible basis for sending a SWAT team over this alleged crime, and they claim to still not have had an answer. Republicans put him in the audience for the last State of the Union in protest against Biden.

mydriasis 3y ago
Yikes, they're really striking out across the board!
kmos17 3y ago
This whole « FBI losing trust from people » looks to me basically because for the first time they are actually doing their job in going after trump’s flagrant law breaking and the Jan 6 attempt to overthrow the election, and conservatives are not liking it.

34tlkj45y 3y ago

1) Election interference. 2) Refusing to prosecute the Bidens even though they already had to show (via threat) by the House of the vast amount of evidence of all the bribes the Bidens have been doing with countries including Ukraine and China.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
u/34tlkj45y is a 19 hour old account pushing narratives about Bidens / Ukraine / China. Low-hanging fruit as spam accounts go. The serious ones will have a longer history and put out longer points. Make of that what you will

Amezarak 3y ago

For most of the FBI’s history, it was run by J Edgar Hoover, who used it to spy on and blackmail innocent Americans and as a political weapon. It’s still the same organization, from spying to entrapment to outright murder to authoritarian political influence (and don’t be mistaken - it’s not on any particular party’s side, it’s on the FBI’s side.) The real question is my mind is how some people came to be convinced it was respectable organization - maybe through its portrayal in pop culture shows? Just institutional power?

more_corn 3y ago

We can’t have a complete conversation about the anti-FBI sentiment without mentioning how a twice impeached former president, who is facing a half dozen federal indictments, drummed up said anti-FBI sentiment in order to discredit our federal investigative bureau in hopes of looking less guilty. He is literally attacking the institutions of our country to distract from his crimes. I would expect law and order conservatives not to stand for such blatant self serving behavior.

helaoban 3y ago
We can’t have a complete conversation about the anti-FBI sentiment without mentioning their very, very long rap sheet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
- jfengel 3y ago
  They do have a long rap sheet, but many of those were a long time ago. This is in the news because something has changed. There are a great many, largely on the left, who distrust the FBI for crimes they committed under Hoover. Many of those actions were actually supported by the right. "The FBI Loses The Public", as the article claims in the present tense. That is mostly on the right, and largely because the FBI is closely involved in investigating and prosecuting right-wing political figures over the past 7 years. Many (including me) believe that they are doing so correctly. But there are plenty who still remember (as you do) the many crimes they committed before being substantially reorganized after 1976: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee
  - Amezarak 3y ago
    Nearly everything on the “FBI controversies” page the GP links is dated much more recently than 1976, and it’s hardly comprehensive. For example, it doesn’t mention the continual entrapment of often mentally ill US Muslims, using informants to persuade and lead them into committing crimes, for which they were then arrested and charged. Only recently has the main target (but not only) of such activity changed to right wingers. We could probably easily add a dozen more subsections to that page from the last two decades. Some were mentioned in these comments already. It seems to me that television and movies convinced a lot of modern conservatives that the FBI were good guys, while modern liberals have decided they’re good guys simply because they’ve been overzealously targeting their political enemies. But that’s simply by accident, not because of any actual ideological alignment. You’re also forgetting that the net achievements of the Church committee were basically nil. The government succeeded in destroying lots of records and ultimately was able to continue nearly all the same behavior and worse anyway. Since then we’ve had murders of American citizens, torture scandals, national surveillance beyond anything Hoover could dream. Heck, just a few years ago, the CIA got busted spying on Congress after it began investigating CIA crimes, then lied about it, got caught red-handed, and the perp not only got off scot-free, but is regarded as a Resistance hero.

jollyllama 3y ago

Read up on U.S. Private Vaults