4 ms·

When I lived in Japan twenty years ago, everybody just wired money electronically and checks were long obsolete. In the US, I write checks every week or so. The

When I lived in Japan twenty years ago, everybody just wired money electronically and checks were long obsolete. In the US, I write checks every week or so. They also had a system where you would put your checkbook into the teller machine and it would print your credits and debits into the book for you. It was very convenient. On the downside, the ATMs were turned off (!) during national holidays, so you had to get cash beforehand.

2143 3y ago
> They also had a system where you would put your checkbook into the teller machine and it would print your credits and debits into the book for you. That's intresting to know. Where I'm at, we had (still have?) a "passbook", a small booklet where you could get all your transactions printed onto. But AFAIK we couldn't do it ourselves through the teller machine though. Once in a few months or so you go to the respective bank and ask the staff there to update the passbook. They use a machine, however. Of course, there days it's unnecessary as you can electronically download a list of your transactions for a given period from the bank's website/app.
- notRobot 3y ago
  I've seen (and actually even used once, I think) automatic passbook updating printer machines in quite a few ATMs in some places.
zerocrates 3y ago
Surprised you're writing checks every week: I haven't written a check in years. ACH transfers, sure, but not physical checks. I do still receive them occasionally, almost always as printed checks from companies.
- xp84 3y ago
  It depends. I have to use checks to pay my landscaper and housekeeper, because there isn't another unilateral payment document. By this I mean, in the US everyone could use CashApp, Venmo, PayPal, Zelle (glorified ACH, right?), etc. for p2p payment. If you have the same bank, many banks have a trivial "send money to another customer's account" feature. However, to do so requires essentially a 'handshake' where the two parties agree on a method. Checks require no up-front handshake, since everyone knows what to do with a check (deposit it at your ATM, take a picture of it with mobile app, or take it to a check-cashing place or the issuing bank). If I could print on paper a key or QR code that allows you to claim the money into the account of your choice, like a check does, I'd use that. Sadly, banks seem to have put their effort into Zelle instead.
  - mnahkies 3y ago
    Aren't you just describing cash? Cheque has the same issue as the online alternatives in that it could "bounce" - cash (or I guess crypto) can't
    - aidenn0 3y ago
      Large checks are cheaper to handle than an equivalent amount of cash. Most people won't just toss $10k in the back of their car and drive to the bank, but would think nothing of taking a $10k check to the bank. Also, there is less of a need for a receipt when paying by check. If I pay someone by check, my bank has a record of it. If I pay them by cash, I better get (and keep) that receipt in the case of a later non-payment dispute.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        I gather check verifications have gotten better. I had to buy a new car last year and my deposit was via CC but, for the final payment, they were fine with a personal check whereas I've always had to pay with a cashier's check from the bank in the past.
        loeg 3y ago
        I think car dealers just run your credit and if it's good enough they accept a personal check these days.
    - xp84 3y ago
      I can’t print cash in my house ;) and I don’t want to keep a board of it under my mattress!
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Yeah. And with online banking apps, it's basically not worth anyone's time to do the handshake because depositing just isn't a big deal [ADDED: If there's an in-person transaction]. I use credit/debit/ACH 95%+ of the time but if that's not an option check is easy.
- TheNewsIsHere 3y ago
  I run into this myself a whole lot with various home service businesses in particular. It’s not unusual for me to get an invoice for a company via QuickBooks Online, with cash or check as the only payment options. Other businesses around here have started giving discounts for paying with cash or check versus apps or credit/debit cards, to avoid the recent increases in fees. I’ll also write checks when having a “hard” traceable payment instrument physically makes sense for auditing purposes or fraud prevention, although that’s less frequently needed.
- grecy 3y ago
  I’m 41 , I’ve never written a cheque in my life, and have received less than 10 in my life. Australia/Canada have been doing free bank transfers since before I was old enough to know
- Klonoar 3y ago
  I find I still have to write a few a year, annoyingly. Of all things my life insurance company is still not set up for credit card payments. In 2023. Boggles the mind.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    The significant credit card fees might have something to do with it. Perhaps better luck with FedNow.
tombert 3y ago
I'm only nominally a grown-up, but I've lived in the US my entire life and I don't think I write a check more than once a year. Most stuff I buy is done with credit cards (which I generally pay with their respective mobile apps with bank transfers), my mortgage is automatically withdrawn from my checking account, and I use CashApp or Paypal to send money to people directly. I think the last time I actually wrote a physical check was when I refinanced my house in 2021.
adventured 3y ago
> When I lived in Japan twenty years ago, everybody just wired money electronically and checks were long obsolete. In the US, I write checks every week or so. And yet in Japan they're still obsessed with using backwards fax machines and paper.
lmm 3y ago
I don't think cheques are obsolete in Japan, so much as never having been popular and established in the first place. A lot of things are just done in cash (even e.g. buying houses!) and that's not seen as unacceptably risky the way it is in many countries; COD is an established practice that again just doesn't exist (and wouldn't remotely be considered safe) elsewhere. Furikomi is slow and expensive and cheques would actually be an upgrade in many ways.
jeffchien 3y ago
Checks never took off in Japan because their 1947 Labor Standards Act (Art. 24) actually made it illegal to pay wages by check [1]. So it's not that checks were made obsolete, it's that they were smothered in their crib. Until the advent of electronic payment, it's said that tens of millions still got paid in cash rather than bank transfer in the early 90s [2]. I think it's easy to forget that societies that adopt a technology early might be doing so because the slightly outdated alternative from elsewhere was never brought over. Japan has no shortage of those, like a lot of dining is still cash only. Who knows, perhaps in 10 years those restaurants will skip credit cards and contactless and go straight to face-based automatic payment. [1] PDF warning https://www.ilo.org/dyn/travail/docs/2018/Labor%20Standards%20Act%20-%20www.cas.go.jp%20version.pdf https://www.ilo.org/dyn/travail/docs/2018/Labor%20Standards%... [2] 1991 article https://www.sun-sentinel.com/1991/10/24/japanese-prefer-cold-hard-cash-to-checks-cards/ https://www.sun-sentinel.com/1991/10/24/japanese-prefer-cold...
TulliusCicero 3y ago
> In the US, I write checks every week or so. What the hell? I need 'checks' of some kind (regular check or cashier's check) maybe once a year for something like a deposit on a rental home. For actual rent payments and the like I use Zelle, since most major banks support it. What do you need actual paper checks for?

2143 3y ago

> They also had a system where you would put your checkbook into the teller machine and it would print your credits and debits into the book for you. That's intresting to know. Where I'm at, we had (still have?) a "passbook", a small booklet where you could get all your transactions printed onto. But AFAIK we couldn't do it ourselves through the teller machine though. Once in a few months or so you go to the respective bank and ask the staff there to update the passbook. They use a machine, however. Of course, there days it's unnecessary as you can electronically download a list of your transactions for a given period from the bank's website/app.

notRobot 3y ago
I've seen (and actually even used once, I think) automatic passbook updating printer machines in quite a few ATMs in some places.

zerocrates 3y ago

Surprised you're writing checks every week: I haven't written a check in years. ACH transfers, sure, but not physical checks. I do still receive them occasionally, almost always as printed checks from companies.

xp84 3y ago
It depends. I have to use checks to pay my landscaper and housekeeper, because there isn't another unilateral payment document. By this I mean, in the US everyone could use CashApp, Venmo, PayPal, Zelle (glorified ACH, right?), etc. for p2p payment. If you have the same bank, many banks have a trivial "send money to another customer's account" feature. However, to do so requires essentially a 'handshake' where the two parties agree on a method. Checks require no up-front handshake, since everyone knows what to do with a check (deposit it at your ATM, take a picture of it with mobile app, or take it to a check-cashing place or the issuing bank). If I could print on paper a key or QR code that allows you to claim the money into the account of your choice, like a check does, I'd use that. Sadly, banks seem to have put their effort into Zelle instead.
- mnahkies 3y ago
  Aren't you just describing cash? Cheque has the same issue as the online alternatives in that it could "bounce" - cash (or I guess crypto) can't
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    Large checks are cheaper to handle than an equivalent amount of cash. Most people won't just toss $10k in the back of their car and drive to the bank, but would think nothing of taking a $10k check to the bank. Also, there is less of a need for a receipt when paying by check. If I pay someone by check, my bank has a record of it. If I pay them by cash, I better get (and keep) that receipt in the case of a later non-payment dispute.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I gather check verifications have gotten better. I had to buy a new car last year and my deposit was via CC but, for the final payment, they were fine with a personal check whereas I've always had to pay with a cashier's check from the bank in the past.
      - loeg 3y ago
        I think car dealers just run your credit and if it's good enough they accept a personal check these days.
  - xp84 3y ago
    I can’t print cash in my house ;) and I don’t want to keep a board of it under my mattress!
- ghaff 3y ago
  Yeah. And with online banking apps, it's basically not worth anyone's time to do the handshake because depositing just isn't a big deal [ADDED: If there's an in-person transaction]. I use credit/debit/ACH 95%+ of the time but if that's not an option check is easy.
TheNewsIsHere 3y ago
I run into this myself a whole lot with various home service businesses in particular. It’s not unusual for me to get an invoice for a company via QuickBooks Online, with cash or check as the only payment options. Other businesses around here have started giving discounts for paying with cash or check versus apps or credit/debit cards, to avoid the recent increases in fees. I’ll also write checks when having a “hard” traceable payment instrument physically makes sense for auditing purposes or fraud prevention, although that’s less frequently needed.
grecy 3y ago
I’m 41 , I’ve never written a cheque in my life, and have received less than 10 in my life. Australia/Canada have been doing free bank transfers since before I was old enough to know
Klonoar 3y ago
I find I still have to write a few a year, annoyingly. Of all things my life insurance company is still not set up for credit card payments. In 2023. Boggles the mind.
- cubefox 3y ago
  The significant credit card fees might have something to do with it. Perhaps better luck with FedNow.

tombert 3y ago

I'm only nominally a grown-up, but I've lived in the US my entire life and I don't think I write a check more than once a year. Most stuff I buy is done with credit cards (which I generally pay with their respective mobile apps with bank transfers), my mortgage is automatically withdrawn from my checking account, and I use CashApp or Paypal to send money to people directly. I think the last time I actually wrote a physical check was when I refinanced my house in 2021.

adventured 3y ago

> When I lived in Japan twenty years ago, everybody just wired money electronically and checks were long obsolete. In the US, I write checks every week or so. And yet in Japan they're still obsessed with using backwards fax machines and paper.

lmm 3y ago

I don't think cheques are obsolete in Japan, so much as never having been popular and established in the first place. A lot of things are just done in cash (even e.g. buying houses!) and that's not seen as unacceptably risky the way it is in many countries; COD is an established practice that again just doesn't exist (and wouldn't remotely be considered safe) elsewhere. Furikomi is slow and expensive and cheques would actually be an upgrade in many ways.

jeffchien 3y ago

Checks never took off in Japan because their 1947 Labor Standards Act (Art. 24) actually made it illegal to pay wages by check [1]. So it's not that checks were made obsolete, it's that they were smothered in their crib. Until the advent of electronic payment, it's said that tens of millions still got paid in cash rather than bank transfer in the early 90s [2]. I think it's easy to forget that societies that adopt a technology early might be doing so because the slightly outdated alternative from elsewhere was never brought over. Japan has no shortage of those, like a lot of dining is still cash only. Who knows, perhaps in 10 years those restaurants will skip credit cards and contactless and go straight to face-based automatic payment. [1] PDF warning https://www.ilo.org/dyn/travail/docs/2018/Labor%20Standards%20Act%20-%20www.cas.go.jp%20version.pdf https://www.ilo.org/dyn/travail/docs/2018/Labor%20Standards%... [2] 1991 article https://www.sun-sentinel.com/1991/10/24/japanese-prefer-cold-hard-cash-to-checks-cards/ https://www.sun-sentinel.com/1991/10/24/japanese-prefer-cold...

TulliusCicero 3y ago

> In the US, I write checks every week or so. What the hell? I need 'checks' of some kind (regular check or cashier's check) maybe once a year for something like a deposit on a rental home. For actual rent payments and the like I use Zelle, since most major banks support it. What do you need actual paper checks for?