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> they should be pee-pants scared all the time Not to step out and defend cops too much but this narrative is unfair...I believe the right to bear arms include

> they should be pee-pants scared all the time Not to step out and defend cops too much but this narrative is unfair...I believe the right to bear arms includes guns and we pay for that as a society. The ones who pay the most are LE. They primarily have to deal with the worst elements of society and the most volatile of individuals. I don't envy the job. I would be scared all the time too. Chances of me being shot at work are near zero. Chances that a street cop is shot are relatively high. However, they don't take too kindly to allowing threats to themselves or other officers to go unchallenged and are primarily interested with maintaining a sense of being in control of any situation they step into, as a matter of human psychology. People tend not to fuck with the people in charge, even if they don't see weapons. This is how the safety element is framed and it's not intrinsically foolish. This naturally conflicts with various Constitutional rights, even in theory, so we get these crazy cases where it's a matter of reputation. You mess with the cops, it can come back at you. Americans expect, that almost everywhere, this holds true. This sounds like a lot of power structures in modern society, does it not? as bamfly pointed out.

deleted 3y ago
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ceejayoz 3y ago
> The ones who pay the most are LE. This is simply not true. Cops die via gunfire in sub-100 numbers annually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_office...
- Supermancho 3y ago
  I meant pay for the right to bear arms in being exposed to the consequences. Might want to look at gunfire injuries that are not deaths. There is also the issue of how this happens despite training, their own weapons, armor, etc that are daily requirements. The general populace would probably see better survival rates with these things as well, right? It's more than a little biased to just point at deaths.
  - hiatus 3y ago
    > It's more than a little biased to just point at deaths. It's less biased than your argument, which pointed at no evidence.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > I meant pay for the right to bear arms in being exposed to the consequences. The 50,000 dead annually via firearms would appear to be paying more. (Even when you adjust for relative populations; 800k cops with 50 deaths, 300M Americans with 50,000). > Might want to look at gunfire injuries that are not deaths. I went looking and was unable to find any particularly reliable sources on police-specific firearm injuries. I did find that cops are at higher risk of firearm death via suicide than via suspects as an additional data point. Perhaps they could do with some therapy and anger management in addition to all the armor and weaponry?
  - idiotsecant 3y ago
    Each year more than 250,000 civilians are injured by police. At least 600 are killed. between 2014 and 2019 there was an average of 245 officers shot per year, many of which were injuries only. It's extremely clear that in an average encounter a civilian is much more likely to be shot and kileld or injured by police than the other way around. Gun violence against police is extremely rare.
    - mrangle 3y ago
      Uses aggregate numbers then transitions to relative probability as if the math logic follows. This thread is a clown show.
      - bamfly 3y ago
        Probability in a given encounter, is how the post is written, which is fine. That is, in an encounter between police and non-police, it's much less likely that a police officer is killed or injured than that someone else is. Now, police officers are obviously going to be involved in a lot more of these encounters than the average person, and there are fewer of them, which I think is what you're getting at, but this is valid from an "in a given encounter, which party is more-justified in fearing for their physical safety?" sort of way.
- mrangle 3y ago
  As with crime statistics, you need percentages to make a point and not aggregate numbers. Also tell us which other professionals are murdered by guns on American streets for doing their jobs, at this rate.
  - catboybotnet 3y ago
    From a quick google search, the number is roughly 660300. Divide 100 by that, you get .00015. A fraction of a fraction. 301 died to Covid in 2021. Hell, according to [0], the deaths to gunfire were only 61. 58 died to traffic related causes. Nearly five times as many cops died to Covid than gunshots! Another question would be, of those 61 deaths to gun violence, how many were because somebody was further instigated into a shootout BECAUSE of the confrontations with police? What about friendly fire? If police are quick to resort to violence, why should the people not be? [0] - https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatality-Report-Final-web.pdf https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatal...
  - Clubber 3y ago
    >Also tell us which other professionals are murdered by guns on American streets for doing their jobs, at this rate. Cab drivers are #1 last time I looked. Pizza delivery close. Cops didn't even make the top 10.
zapataband1 3y ago
You are statistically more likely to die on the job as a delivery driver than a cop.
- zer8k 3y ago
  Another fun fact is when controlling for race and gender you are still more likely to be killed by a cop than almost anything else.
  - leereeves 3y ago
    This is so far from true it's absurd. Roughly 100k Americans per year die from drug overdoses, 30k from car accidents, while only 1k are killed by police. And while everyone knows cancer and heart disease are the leading causes of death, few people realize they kill significant numbers of young Americans, more than 10k per year. Even if you limit the discussion to violent crime, you're far more likely to be killed by someone you know than by an officer.
    - diydsp 3y ago
      checks out: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... Although this is quite concerning: > about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police [1] Also: > Black people more than three times as likely as white people to be killed during a police encounter [2] Also interesting to note: > The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women. [1] [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1821204116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1821204116 [2] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-whites-police-deaths-disparity/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-wh...
cratermoon 3y ago
It's deadlier to be pregnant than to be a cop.
- diydsp 3y ago
  Evidences shows about 2-3x as deadly to be pregnant than to be a cop: > For law enforcement, that rate was about 13 deaths per 100,000 officers. [1] > overall maternal mortality rate of 32.9 per 100,000 live births in 2021 > 23.8 in 2020 and 20.1 in 2019. [2] > The maternal mortality rate for 2021 was 32.9 deaths per 100,000 live births, compared with a rate of 23.8 in 2020 and 20.1 in 2019 (Table). [3] Who knew fishing and hunter is so dangerous? > Fishing and hunting workers had the highest fatality rate at 132 deaths per 100,000 workers. [1] [1] https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-in-the-line-of-duty/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-i... [2] https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-rise https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ceejayoz 3y ago

> The ones who pay the most are LE. This is simply not true. Cops die via gunfire in sub-100 numbers annually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_office...

Supermancho 3y ago
I meant pay for the right to bear arms in being exposed to the consequences. Might want to look at gunfire injuries that are not deaths. There is also the issue of how this happens despite training, their own weapons, armor, etc that are daily requirements. The general populace would probably see better survival rates with these things as well, right? It's more than a little biased to just point at deaths.
- hiatus 3y ago
  > It's more than a little biased to just point at deaths. It's less biased than your argument, which pointed at no evidence.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > I meant pay for the right to bear arms in being exposed to the consequences. The 50,000 dead annually via firearms would appear to be paying more. (Even when you adjust for relative populations; 800k cops with 50 deaths, 300M Americans with 50,000). > Might want to look at gunfire injuries that are not deaths. I went looking and was unable to find any particularly reliable sources on police-specific firearm injuries. I did find that cops are at higher risk of firearm death via suicide than via suspects as an additional data point. Perhaps they could do with some therapy and anger management in addition to all the armor and weaponry?
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  Each year more than 250,000 civilians are injured by police. At least 600 are killed. between 2014 and 2019 there was an average of 245 officers shot per year, many of which were injuries only. It's extremely clear that in an average encounter a civilian is much more likely to be shot and kileld or injured by police than the other way around. Gun violence against police is extremely rare.
  - mrangle 3y ago
    Uses aggregate numbers then transitions to relative probability as if the math logic follows. This thread is a clown show.
    - bamfly 3y ago
      Probability in a given encounter, is how the post is written, which is fine. That is, in an encounter between police and non-police, it's much less likely that a police officer is killed or injured than that someone else is. Now, police officers are obviously going to be involved in a lot more of these encounters than the average person, and there are fewer of them, which I think is what you're getting at, but this is valid from an "in a given encounter, which party is more-justified in fearing for their physical safety?" sort of way.
mrangle 3y ago
As with crime statistics, you need percentages to make a point and not aggregate numbers. Also tell us which other professionals are murdered by guns on American streets for doing their jobs, at this rate.
- catboybotnet 3y ago
  From a quick google search, the number is roughly 660300. Divide 100 by that, you get .00015. A fraction of a fraction. 301 died to Covid in 2021. Hell, according to [0], the deaths to gunfire were only 61. 58 died to traffic related causes. Nearly five times as many cops died to Covid than gunshots! Another question would be, of those 61 deaths to gun violence, how many were because somebody was further instigated into a shootout BECAUSE of the confrontations with police? What about friendly fire? If police are quick to resort to violence, why should the people not be? [0] - https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatality-Report-Final-web.pdf https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatal...
- Clubber 3y ago
  >Also tell us which other professionals are murdered by guns on American streets for doing their jobs, at this rate. Cab drivers are #1 last time I looked. Pizza delivery close. Cops didn't even make the top 10.

zapataband1 3y ago

You are statistically more likely to die on the job as a delivery driver than a cop.

zer8k 3y ago
Another fun fact is when controlling for race and gender you are still more likely to be killed by a cop than almost anything else.
- leereeves 3y ago
  This is so far from true it's absurd. Roughly 100k Americans per year die from drug overdoses, 30k from car accidents, while only 1k are killed by police. And while everyone knows cancer and heart disease are the leading causes of death, few people realize they kill significant numbers of young Americans, more than 10k per year. Even if you limit the discussion to violent crime, you're far more likely to be killed by someone you know than by an officer.
  - diydsp 3y ago
    checks out: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... Although this is quite concerning: > about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police [1] Also: > Black people more than three times as likely as white people to be killed during a police encounter [2] Also interesting to note: > The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women. [1] [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1821204116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1821204116 [2] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-whites-police-deaths-disparity/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/blacks-wh...

cratermoon 3y ago

It's deadlier to be pregnant than to be a cop.

diydsp 3y ago
Evidences shows about 2-3x as deadly to be pregnant than to be a cop: > For law enforcement, that rate was about 13 deaths per 100,000 officers. [1] > overall maternal mortality rate of 32.9 per 100,000 live births in 2021 > 23.8 in 2020 and 20.1 in 2019. [2] > The maternal mortality rate for 2021 was 32.9 deaths per 100,000 live births, compared with a rate of 23.8 in 2020 and 20.1 in 2019 (Table). [3] Who knew fishing and hunter is so dangerous? > Fishing and hunting workers had the highest fatality rate at 132 deaths per 100,000 workers. [1] [1] https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-in-the-line-of-duty/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-police-officers-die-i... [2] https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-rise https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/maternal-mortality-on-the-... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021...