3 ms·

99% of modern scientists would not make it out of series A funding from VCs yet the government keeps throwing millions at them because they keep publishing pape

99% of modern scientists would not make it out of series A funding from VCs yet the government keeps throwing millions at them because they keep publishing papers even if the papers provide no value to society. And the people in charge of giving the funding went to the same elite universities as most of the people that are getting the funding. Theres zero accountability. Modern science industry is a massive scam. Its literally theft. And hasn't produced much applicable to the actual world in decades. The solution is to eliminate white collar welfare and make the scientists get their own funding like an entrepreneur or an artist or literally any other field.

ivan_gammel 3y ago
That will not advance science much because of completely wrong incentives. Scientific knowledge does not always have to be monetized and often is impossible to monetize, yet it is extremely valuable. Just a few examples: 1. Verification of prior research that produced negative results (e.g. proved some hypothesis wrong). VCs may want to take the risk and fund the original research, but what’s the risk model in verifying the negative results? 2. Theoretical research that will yield practical results only in 50+ years. No VC would wait that long (what share of fusion research was funded by VCs in the last 50 years?) 3. Research that undermines capitalist model, e.g. by demonstrating the necessity to increase taxes or altering redistribution to reduce inequality. The society will clearly benefit from it, but what could a VC gain from that?
- nerdchum 3y ago
  Science is not advancing much now! What is it produced in the past decade?? Past 30 years?? I've been on this earth for many decades and (other than the internet developed by the military)...the TRILLIONS of tax dollars that have gone into science have yielded nothing to minimal application to my life. I completely understand your idealistic version of blue sky science needing disinterested non-results-based funding.... but that just turns to corruption and using our tax dollars wastefully with no results with the perpetual excuse of: "it's blue sky research I don't have to prove anything to you just give me more money" and I've worked in labs and universities and I can 100% tell you scientific corruption with tax dollars is more the rule than the exception.
  - ivan_gammel 3y ago
    If you missed the progress of the last 30 years, it shows only how much are you uninterested in this topic. There happened A LOT practically in every field. Several major mathematical problems were solved, big progress in theoretical and applied physics, astronomy, biology, medicine etc etc. All modern electronics, electric cars, medical treatments are based on recent research. AI, solar energy, green tech… shall I continue or you just subscribe to phys.org? The problems with corruption are direct consequence of applying capitalist model with the wrong incentives. It is pretty dumb for modern scientists to value published papers over verified results and to pursue medieval titles.
    - nerdchum 3y ago
      > modern electronics, electric cars, medical treatments are based on recent research. AI, solar energy, green tech Every single thing you mentioned is a result of private industry. I've read phys.org....cold fusion has been righttttt around the corner for a century now according to them. So has all of the promising miraculous cancer cures that never materialize. Even if some research comes from academia, I bet you that private industry would make the same breakthroughs and for far far far less money.
      - cycomanic 3y ago
        So you are just demonstrating your ignorance. All of these are based on years of government funded research, private funding really only got involved once things looked promising.
        nerdchum 3y ago
        electric cars: invented by private industry, refined by private industry lithium ion batteries: invented at Exxon and Asahi Kasai corp AI: refined at IBM culminating in deep blue, refined by Google with BERT, recently refined by Open AI solar panel: invented by bell labs private industry modern electronics, medical technology, and green tech?? all so vague, but probably all invented by private industry. It's actually the reverse with you showing your ignorance.

ivan_gammel 3y ago

That will not advance science much because of completely wrong incentives. Scientific knowledge does not always have to be monetized and often is impossible to monetize, yet it is extremely valuable. Just a few examples: 1. Verification of prior research that produced negative results (e.g. proved some hypothesis wrong). VCs may want to take the risk and fund the original research, but what’s the risk model in verifying the negative results? 2. Theoretical research that will yield practical results only in 50+ years. No VC would wait that long (what share of fusion research was funded by VCs in the last 50 years?) 3. Research that undermines capitalist model, e.g. by demonstrating the necessity to increase taxes or altering redistribution to reduce inequality. The society will clearly benefit from it, but what could a VC gain from that?

nerdchum 3y ago
Science is not advancing much now! What is it produced in the past decade?? Past 30 years?? I've been on this earth for many decades and (other than the internet developed by the military)...the TRILLIONS of tax dollars that have gone into science have yielded nothing to minimal application to my life. I completely understand your idealistic version of blue sky science needing disinterested non-results-based funding.... but that just turns to corruption and using our tax dollars wastefully with no results with the perpetual excuse of: "it's blue sky research I don't have to prove anything to you just give me more money" and I've worked in labs and universities and I can 100% tell you scientific corruption with tax dollars is more the rule than the exception.
- ivan_gammel 3y ago
  If you missed the progress of the last 30 years, it shows only how much are you uninterested in this topic. There happened A LOT practically in every field. Several major mathematical problems were solved, big progress in theoretical and applied physics, astronomy, biology, medicine etc etc. All modern electronics, electric cars, medical treatments are based on recent research. AI, solar energy, green tech… shall I continue or you just subscribe to phys.org? The problems with corruption are direct consequence of applying capitalist model with the wrong incentives. It is pretty dumb for modern scientists to value published papers over verified results and to pursue medieval titles.
  - nerdchum 3y ago
    > modern electronics, electric cars, medical treatments are based on recent research. AI, solar energy, green tech Every single thing you mentioned is a result of private industry. I've read phys.org....cold fusion has been righttttt around the corner for a century now according to them. So has all of the promising miraculous cancer cures that never materialize. Even if some research comes from academia, I bet you that private industry would make the same breakthroughs and for far far far less money.
    - cycomanic 3y ago
      So you are just demonstrating your ignorance. All of these are based on years of government funded research, private funding really only got involved once things looked promising.
      - nerdchum 3y ago
        electric cars: invented by private industry, refined by private industry lithium ion batteries: invented at Exxon and Asahi Kasai corp AI: refined at IBM culminating in deep blue, refined by Google with BERT, recently refined by Open AI solar panel: invented by bell labs private industry modern electronics, medical technology, and green tech?? all so vague, but probably all invented by private industry. It's actually the reverse with you showing your ignorance.