5 ms·

Doesn't it seem like this kind of fraud should result in prison sentences? I'm so sick of frauds in academia. I really wish the elites in our society still to

Doesn't it seem like this kind of fraud should result in prison sentences? I'm so sick of frauds in academia. I really wish the elites in our society still took the idea of Hell seriously. Also: "will resign effective August 31"??? Shouldn't this guy be locked out of his office, have his laptop confiscated, and be banned from campus immediately?

EMCymatics 3y ago
>Doesn't it seem like this kind of fraud should result in prison sentences? It should but it probably wont.
- jojobaskins 3y ago
  I remember a student who doctored his whole CV to get into Harvard (and win awards) was sent to probation: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/12/16/harvard-wheeler-college-guilty/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/12/16/harvard-wheele... Although his case was more egregious.
amelius 3y ago
And pay back his salary ...
Method-X 3y ago
Definitely. And on a broader note, white collar crime effectively having zero repercussions is the main reason so many of our institutions are failing.
Tao3300 3y ago
The prison system wouldn't be able to handle the influx.
nerdchum 3y ago
He prob had millions in government grants to write those papers. Theres no accountability.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  You know barely any of the money goes to him personally right? Grants aren't lottery tickets.
  - nerdchum 3y ago
    Ive worked in government labs and at universities. The grant money literally pays their salary. That aside... the amount of ways to commit corruption are endless... The amount of conferences they had in Italy and Malibu and places like that... The hot research assistant that never showed up to the lab but got paid. The endless tech project that took a decade and millions of dollars to write a simple LMS because their buddy ran the LMS company. The showing up at 10Am and leaving at 3 with a long lunch and working 20 hour work weeks. The university creating a team devoted to hacking the grant process. The elite university people in charge of the funding giving their other elite university alumni preferential treatment. Zero diversity labs because scientists hire their buddies. You can literally walk through university research buildings and see all Indian Labs, all Chinese labs, etc. The waste is massive and insane with our tax dollars. Its literally white collar welfare. And it happens everywhere and theres no accountability. Its a giant scam wrapped in the virtue signaling of altruistic science. It needs to end.
    - ke88y 3y ago
      > The showing up at 10Am and leaving at 3 with a long lunch and working 20 hour work weeks. Mostly this. The conferences honestly aren't that much of a perk, relative to the pay differential, at least in STEM fields. The "hot research asst" thing was common in the past but died down significantly with #MeToo (still a lot of egotistical creeps ofc). But the amount of general laziness dressed up as busyness in academia is astounding. Most professors retire in place some time in their early to mid 30s. The solution is to end higher ed carve-outs in federal grant awards. Let anyone qualified apply for and receive NSF funds. Stop tying tax dollars to university affiliation.
      - nerdchum 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
digdugdirk 3y ago
Absolutely, but given the magnitude of the impacts, I'd like to go after white collar crime first.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > Absolutely, but given the magnitude of the impacts, I'd like to go after white collar crime first. This is literally white collar crime. Like most white collar crime, it's not reported in "crime statistics", and it may not be prosecuted for any number of reasons, but it's literally the definition of white collar crime.
londons_explore 3y ago
A transition period for a leadership role tends to be a good plan, especially when the misconduct of the old leader is rather tangential to the role (ie. he wasn't caught buying Ferraris with university funds).
aliwrjtliawerj 3y ago
[flagged]
ke88y 3y ago
> Doesn't it seem like this kind of fraud should result in prison sentences? It depends on the nature of the fraud. I'm no fan of academia (see my post history), but this has to be close to the bottom of my list of priorities. The last car salesman I interacted with probably deserves more jail time than even the most unscrupulous academic (and the car salesman actually did commit a crime, but prosecution would be highly surprising). Medical and drug insurance is another case where there is systematic, intentional, and legal fraud literally killing people every day. The insurance case in particular is pernicious and full of literally deadly Catch-22 "tricks". See also all the obviously criminal web3 stuff that will definitely hit statute of limitations before any LE/prosecutor finds the time to investigate and prosecute. Most fraudsters don't see any legal punishment because LE and prosecutor time is so limited relative to the amount of fraud. And in the worst cases because the fraudsters have so much money and power that even obvious bullshit is at least de facto not criminal (see insurance). So, anyways. Should it be criminal? Yes. Is it criminal? IDK. Probably somehow. Is it where finite resources should be spent? Not usually; IMO there are far worse types of fraud where the people's LE+legal+legislative resources should be spent. > Also: "will resign effective August 31"??? Shouldn't this guy be locked out of his office, have his laptop confiscated, and be banned from campus immediately? Conjecture: there is probably a lot of "hand-off" work to be done. Excluding my first two jobs, where I was a junior/mid-level IC, I have always been asked to stay a least a month longer than the typical 2 weeks to handle hand-offs. I guess the best we can hope for is that the last month of employment is living hell as he has to attend a bunch of hand-off meetings as a totally disgraced academic/leader.
tptacek 3y ago
That depends on what percentage of grant money you believe should be spent on extra administration and ass-covering, which is the standard institutional response to liability. Bear in mind: a healthy chunk of grant money is already taken as a rake by the sponsoring university. Again, the optimal amount of research misconduct isn't zero!

EMCymatics 3y ago

>Doesn't it seem like this kind of fraud should result in prison sentences? It should but it probably wont.

jojobaskins 3y ago
I remember a student who doctored his whole CV to get into Harvard (and win awards) was sent to probation: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/12/16/harvard-wheeler-college-guilty/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/12/16/harvard-wheele... Although his case was more egregious.

amelius 3y ago

And pay back his salary ...

Method-X 3y ago

Definitely. And on a broader note, white collar crime effectively having zero repercussions is the main reason so many of our institutions are failing.

Tao3300 3y ago

The prison system wouldn't be able to handle the influx.

nerdchum 3y ago

He prob had millions in government grants to write those papers. Theres no accountability.

mrguyorama 3y ago
You know barely any of the money goes to him personally right? Grants aren't lottery tickets.
- nerdchum 3y ago
  Ive worked in government labs and at universities. The grant money literally pays their salary. That aside... the amount of ways to commit corruption are endless... The amount of conferences they had in Italy and Malibu and places like that... The hot research assistant that never showed up to the lab but got paid. The endless tech project that took a decade and millions of dollars to write a simple LMS because their buddy ran the LMS company. The showing up at 10Am and leaving at 3 with a long lunch and working 20 hour work weeks. The university creating a team devoted to hacking the grant process. The elite university people in charge of the funding giving their other elite university alumni preferential treatment. Zero diversity labs because scientists hire their buddies. You can literally walk through university research buildings and see all Indian Labs, all Chinese labs, etc. The waste is massive and insane with our tax dollars. Its literally white collar welfare. And it happens everywhere and theres no accountability. Its a giant scam wrapped in the virtue signaling of altruistic science. It needs to end.
  - ke88y 3y ago
    > The showing up at 10Am and leaving at 3 with a long lunch and working 20 hour work weeks. Mostly this. The conferences honestly aren't that much of a perk, relative to the pay differential, at least in STEM fields. The "hot research asst" thing was common in the past but died down significantly with #MeToo (still a lot of egotistical creeps ofc). But the amount of general laziness dressed up as busyness in academia is astounding. Most professors retire in place some time in their early to mid 30s. The solution is to end higher ed carve-outs in federal grant awards. Let anyone qualified apply for and receive NSF funds. Stop tying tax dollars to university affiliation.
    - nerdchum 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

digdugdirk 3y ago

Absolutely, but given the magnitude of the impacts, I'd like to go after white collar crime first.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> Absolutely, but given the magnitude of the impacts, I'd like to go after white collar crime first. This is literally white collar crime. Like most white collar crime, it's not reported in "crime statistics", and it may not be prosecuted for any number of reasons, but it's literally the definition of white collar crime.

londons_explore 3y ago

A transition period for a leadership role tends to be a good plan, especially when the misconduct of the old leader is rather tangential to the role (ie. he wasn't caught buying Ferraris with university funds).

aliwrjtliawerj 3y ago

[flagged]

ke88y 3y ago

> Doesn't it seem like this kind of fraud should result in prison sentences? It depends on the nature of the fraud. I'm no fan of academia (see my post history), but this has to be close to the bottom of my list of priorities. The last car salesman I interacted with probably deserves more jail time than even the most unscrupulous academic (and the car salesman actually did commit a crime, but prosecution would be highly surprising). Medical and drug insurance is another case where there is systematic, intentional, and legal fraud literally killing people every day. The insurance case in particular is pernicious and full of literally deadly Catch-22 "tricks". See also all the obviously criminal web3 stuff that will definitely hit statute of limitations before any LE/prosecutor finds the time to investigate and prosecute. Most fraudsters don't see any legal punishment because LE and prosecutor time is so limited relative to the amount of fraud. And in the worst cases because the fraudsters have so much money and power that even obvious bullshit is at least de facto not criminal (see insurance). So, anyways. Should it be criminal? Yes. Is it criminal? IDK. Probably somehow. Is it where finite resources should be spent? Not usually; IMO there are far worse types of fraud where the people's LE+legal+legislative resources should be spent. > Also: "will resign effective August 31"??? Shouldn't this guy be locked out of his office, have his laptop confiscated, and be banned from campus immediately? Conjecture: there is probably a lot of "hand-off" work to be done. Excluding my first two jobs, where I was a junior/mid-level IC, I have always been asked to stay a least a month longer than the typical 2 weeks to handle hand-offs. I guess the best we can hope for is that the last month of employment is living hell as he has to attend a bunch of hand-off meetings as a totally disgraced academic/leader.

tptacek 3y ago

That depends on what percentage of grant money you believe should be spent on extra administration and ass-covering, which is the standard institutional response to liability. Bear in mind: a healthy chunk of grant money is already taken as a rake by the sponsoring university. Again, the optimal amount of research misconduct isn't zero!