29 ms·

I'm amazed it was ever legal in the first place. It's open nepotism.

by causi 3y ago

pitaj 3y ago
Nepotism has never been illegal.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  In the private sector. In many governments, it is quite illegal.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    Making a distinction about the "private sector," but being vague for some reason about the country we're discussing?
    - clnq 3y ago
      The US. There is no other country.
    - reaperducer 3y ago
      Making a distinction about the "private sector," but being vague for some reason about the country we're discussing? I wrote "many governments" because I am not fully versed in the policies and laws of every nation on the planet. Perhaps you can fill us in?
  - laiejtli 3y ago
    Not sure how to phrase this. It's illegal in the US government, but it still exists all over unofficially and it's openly acknowledged standard practice in many NGOs. It's very difficult to get a job at NASA. I forget the exact number, but something like 75% of people who "work for NASA" are contractors and only a small minority are actual government employees. In order to get a full-time job, it helps to have previous experience usually in the form of a graduate fellowship. In order to get a fellowship, it helps to have undergrad summer experience. In order to get undergraduate experience, it's very helpful to have high school summer program experience. In order to get high school experience, you'll need to live in the area and probably have some connections which means parents or family who work at the NASA facility in question. In my experience, national labs were similar but to a much lesser extreme, often just because they're remote and sometimes antiquated and children of lab employees often can't wait to get away. When I worked at at the UN, (NGO, not formal government) coworkers were genuinely confused about how I got a job there with no family connections in higher places. I had the same conversation with several bewildered coworkers who plainly told me about their parent or uncle who got them their job. I was told that nepotism is much, much more common and openly acknowledged in Europe than in the US.
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    Sure, but it's legal in many governments too. The classic example is the Office of the First Lady: an institutionalized nepotistic government position for which one qualifies solely by being married to the highest elected position in the US, the President.
- joezydeco 3y ago
  As long as you keep it in the family.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
nerdo 3y ago
Nepotism is how groups function everywhere. The race-based admissions was a weird new thing, from a hyper-focused conspiracy that appears to be losing its grip.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  Race-based admissions was a pretend way to remediate slavery and Jim Crow without spending any money or focusing on the harms done to the descendants of slaves. Almost everybody who thinks that the racism of Affirmative Action was a terrible thing also thinks compensating the descendants of slaves for the unpaid work and legal segregation that their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents (and so on, 10-20 times) endured would be 100x worse. The reason for AA was because you couldn't get anything that specifically calculated and addressed the harms of slavery and Jim Crow past the advocates of "meritocracy." Was the literal pricing of slaves not the ultimate capitalist proof of merit?
  - nerdo 3y ago
    So.. file a claim against the southern plantation owners who benefited in excess of the compensation paid? What's the relevance of any of this to anything?
Y_Y 3y ago
I don't think this is nepotism, strictly speaking. The applicants aren't related or necessarily personally known to the people making the decision, they're merely related to prior graduates. It may be reflective of corruption and produce inequitable and undesirable outcomes, but nepotism is something else.
drewcoo 3y ago
If nepotism were illegal, we would have a 100% inheritance tax across the board. There tend to be more laws pro-family than anti- for some reason . . .
- zenbane 3y ago
  Why would "anti-family" laws make sense? People who come from stable families are statistically much much more likely to be happy, successful and contribute to society.
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
There's no need to be antisemitic, but I get what you're saying.
- sebmellen 3y ago
  For much of their history, legacy admissions were a tool to keep out less desirable Jewish/Catholic/non-WASP applicants [0][1] [0]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23055549 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23055549 [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/us/legacy-admissions-colleges-universities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/us/legacy-admissions-coll...

I'm amazed it was ever legal in the first place. It's open nepotism.

by causi 3y ago

I'm amazed it was ever legal in the first place. It's open nepotism.

pitaj 3y ago

Nepotism has never been illegal.

reaperducer 3y ago
In the private sector. In many governments, it is quite illegal.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  Making a distinction about the "private sector," but being vague for some reason about the country we're discussing?
  - clnq 3y ago
    The US. There is no other country.
  - reaperducer 3y ago
    Making a distinction about the "private sector," but being vague for some reason about the country we're discussing? I wrote "many governments" because I am not fully versed in the policies and laws of every nation on the planet. Perhaps you can fill us in?
- laiejtli 3y ago
  Not sure how to phrase this. It's illegal in the US government, but it still exists all over unofficially and it's openly acknowledged standard practice in many NGOs. It's very difficult to get a job at NASA. I forget the exact number, but something like 75% of people who "work for NASA" are contractors and only a small minority are actual government employees. In order to get a full-time job, it helps to have previous experience usually in the form of a graduate fellowship. In order to get a fellowship, it helps to have undergrad summer experience. In order to get undergraduate experience, it's very helpful to have high school summer program experience. In order to get high school experience, you'll need to live in the area and probably have some connections which means parents or family who work at the NASA facility in question. In my experience, national labs were similar but to a much lesser extreme, often just because they're remote and sometimes antiquated and children of lab employees often can't wait to get away. When I worked at at the UN, (NGO, not formal government) coworkers were genuinely confused about how I got a job there with no family connections in higher places. I had the same conversation with several bewildered coworkers who plainly told me about their parent or uncle who got them their job. I was told that nepotism is much, much more common and openly acknowledged in Europe than in the US.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Sure, but it's legal in many governments too. The classic example is the Office of the First Lady: an institutionalized nepotistic government position for which one qualifies solely by being married to the highest elected position in the US, the President.
joezydeco 3y ago
As long as you keep it in the family.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

nerdo 3y ago

Nepotism is how groups function everywhere. The race-based admissions was a weird new thing, from a hyper-focused conspiracy that appears to be losing its grip.

pessimizer 3y ago
Race-based admissions was a pretend way to remediate slavery and Jim Crow without spending any money or focusing on the harms done to the descendants of slaves. Almost everybody who thinks that the racism of Affirmative Action was a terrible thing also thinks compensating the descendants of slaves for the unpaid work and legal segregation that their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents (and so on, 10-20 times) endured would be 100x worse. The reason for AA was because you couldn't get anything that specifically calculated and addressed the harms of slavery and Jim Crow past the advocates of "meritocracy." Was the literal pricing of slaves not the ultimate capitalist proof of merit?
- nerdo 3y ago
  So.. file a claim against the southern plantation owners who benefited in excess of the compensation paid? What's the relevance of any of this to anything?

Y_Y 3y ago

I don't think this is nepotism, strictly speaking. The applicants aren't related or necessarily personally known to the people making the decision, they're merely related to prior graduates. It may be reflective of corruption and produce inequitable and undesirable outcomes, but nepotism is something else.

drewcoo 3y ago

If nepotism were illegal, we would have a 100% inheritance tax across the board. There tend to be more laws pro-family than anti- for some reason . . .

zenbane 3y ago
Why would "anti-family" laws make sense? People who come from stable families are statistically much much more likely to be happy, successful and contribute to society.

VoodooJuJu 3y ago

There's no need to be antisemitic, but I get what you're saying.

sebmellen 3y ago
For much of their history, legacy admissions were a tool to keep out less desirable Jewish/Catholic/non-WASP applicants [0][1] [0]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23055549 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23055549 [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/us/legacy-admissions-colleges-universities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/13/us/legacy-admissions-coll...