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That's an oddly high number for blocking competition. OpenAI's ChatGPT hit 100 million MAUs in January, and has gone down since. It's essentially a "Amazon and
by minimaxir 3y ago
That's an oddly high number for blocking competition. OpenAI's ChatGPT hit 100 million MAUs in January, and has gone down since.
It's essentially a "Amazon and Google don't use this k thx."
- stu2b50 3y agoI think more Apple. It's not like Google or Microsoft would want to use LLaMA when they have fully capable models themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon does as well. Apple is the big laggard in terms of big tech and complex neural network models.
- whimsicalism 3y agoGoogle's model is not as capable as llama-derived models, so I think they would actually benefit from this. > I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon does as well. I would - they are not a very major player in this space. TikTok also meets this definition and probably doesn't have LLM.
- dooraven 3y ago> Google's model is not as capable as llama-derived models, so I think they would actually benefit from this. Google's publically available model isn't as capable. But they certainly have models that are far better already in house.
- whimsicalism 3y agoI have no idea how you are so certain of that. Meta is definitely ahead of Google in terms of NLP expertise and has been for a while. I suspect that Google released their best model at the time with Bard.
- dooraven 3y agoWe still don't have access to Imagen last I checked, it's still in restricted access. We don't have access to SoundStorm or MusicLM https://imagen.research.google/ https://imagen.research.google/ https://google-research.github.io/seanet/soundstorm/examples/ https://google-research.github.io/seanet/soundstorm/examples... https://google-research.github.io/seanet/musiclm/examples/ https://google-research.github.io/seanet/musiclm/examples/ Why would it be surprising that they have better models for resarch that they don't want to give out yet?
- whimsicalism 3y agoBecause I work in NLP so I have a good sense of the different capabilities of different firms and for the Bard release, it would have made more sense for them to have a more limited release of a better model for PR reasons than what actually happened. The other things you are describing are just standard for research paper releases.
- dooraven 3y ago> Bard release, it would have made more sense for them to have a more limited release of a better model for PR reasons than what actually happened. Yes I would agree with you if Google wasn't set on to full on panic mode by their investors about releasing something vs Open AI due to Chat GPT's buzz. Bard was just a "hey we can do this too" thing, it was released half assed, had next to no marketing or hype. Vertex AI is their real proper offering, and I want to see how PaLM 2 does in comparison.
- whimsicalism 3y agoI can already tell you that PaLM is not anywhere near as good and PaLM-2 is at least not as good before RLHF. Not going to keep replying, believe what you want about Google's capabilities
- dooraven 3y agook now I am confused, as Meta themselves say Palm-2 is better than Llama 2? > Llama 2 70B results are on par or better than PaLM (540B) (Chowdhery et al., 2022) on almost all benchmarks. There is still a large gap in performance between Llama 2 70B and GPT-4 and PaLM-2-L. https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.2365-6/10000000_6495670187160042_4742060979571156424_n.pdf https://scontent.fsyd7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.2365-6/10000000... If Google's publically available model is better Llama 2 already then why is it so inconceivable that they'd have private models that are better than their public ones which are better than LLama already. Palm-2 isn't better than GPT-4 but the convo was about better than Llama models no?
- flangola7 3y ago> I have no idea how you are so certain of that. Some among us work with it, or have friends or family who work with it. I imagine it is one of those.
- WastingMyTime89 3y agoDo they? Considering how much was at stack in term of PR when OpenAI released ChatGPT, I would be surprised that Google didn’t put out the best they could.
- freedomben 3y agoThe other end of the PR stake was safety/alignment. If Google released a well functioning model, but it said some unsavory things or carried out requests that the public doesn't find agreeable, it could make Google look bad.
- matt_holden 3y agoComments like this remind me of the old-timers from IBM saying "but wait, we invented the PC! and the cloud! and..." Gotta put products in the market, or it didn't happen...
- jefftk 3y agoIt's fine not to give them public credit for in-house only things, but in this subthread we're speculating about whether Llama 2 would be useful to them, which does depend heavily on the quality of their internal models.
- foobiekr 3y agobringing back PLOSTFU culture might not actually be a bad thing.
- cma 3y agoOpenAI seemingly downgraded ChatGPT 4 due to the expense of running it for pro customers (unless you run it through the API).
- chaxor 3y agoGoogle has far better models than llama based models. They just simply don't put them facing the public. It is pretty ridiculous that they essentially just set a marketing team with no programming experience to write Bard, but that shouldn't fool anyone into believing they don't have capable models in Google. If Deepmind were to actually provide what they have in some usable form, it would likely be quite good. Despite being the first to publish on RLHF (just right before OpenAI) and bring the idea to the academic sphere, they mostly work in areas tangential to 'just chatbots' (e.g. how to improve science with novel GNNs, etc). However, they're mostly academics, so they aren't set on making products, doing the janitorial work of fancy UIs and web marketing, and making things easy to use, like much of the rest of the field.
- whimsicalism 3y agoI work in this field. I would love to see what you are basing these assertions off of. > they mostly work in areas tangential to 'just chatbots' (e.g. how to improve science with novel GNNs, etc) Yes, Alphabet has poured tons of money into exotic ML research whereas Meta just kept pouring more money into more & deeper NLP research.
- renewiltord 3y agoGoogle's LLMs are all vaporware. No one's ever seen them. They're supposedly mind-blowing but when they are released they always sound like lobotomized monkeys. All the AlphaGo/AlphaFold stuff is very cool, but since no one has seen their LLMs this is about as convincing as my claiming I've donated billions to charity.
- jll29 3y agoI can assure you Google BERT isn't vaporware. It was probably a challenge to integrate it into search, but they did that. So your assertion has been refuted based on your use of "all", at the very least.
- renewiltord 3y agoHaha, that's right. Google has BERT. Their AI stuff isn't all vaporware. There's always BERT.
- galaxyLogic 3y agoI just googled "What is the order of object-fields in JavaScript" and the bard-answer said nothing about the differences between ES5 and ES6 and ES2020 how by now the order of object-fields in fact is deterministic. It seems it is not aware of the notion of historic development, perhaps its world-model is "static"? Temporal reasoning is interesting , if you google for "news" do you get what was news last year because a website updated last year had a page claiming to contain "Latest News". REF: https://www.stefanjudis.com/today-i-learned/property-order-is-predictable-in-javascript-objects-since-es2015/ https://www.stefanjudis.com/today-i-learned/property-order-i...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ankeshanand 3y agoHas anyone in this subthread actually read the papers and compared the benchmarks? LLama2 is behind PALM-2 on all major benchmarks, I mean they spell this out in the paper explicitly.
- lacker 3y agoI think Google or Microsoft probably would want to use LLaMa for various purposes like benchmarking and improving their own products. Check out this other condition from the license: v. You will not use the Llama Materials or any output or results of the Llama Materials to improve any other large language model (excluding Llama 2 or derivative works thereof). https://github.com/facebookresearch/llama/blob/main/LICENSE https://github.com/facebookresearch/llama/blob/main/LICENSE Just like Google scrapes the internet to improve their models, it might make sense to ingest outputs from other models to improve their models. This licensing prevents them from doing that. Using Llama to improve other LLMs is specifically forbidden, but Google will also be forbidden from using Llama to improve any other AI products they might be building.
- galaxyLogic 3y agoI can see their business logic but isn't it a bit like do not allow people (or bots) talk to each other, they might all get smarter. I understand trade-secrets are not free-speech but if the goal is to build better AI to serve the humanity the different bots should learn from each other. They should also criticize each other to find flaws in their thinking and biases.
- peddling-brink 3y ago> if the goal is to build better AI to serve the humanity It’s not.
- DeathArrow 3y ago>but if the goal is to build better AI to serve the humanity Whose goal is that?
- galaxyLogic 3y agoGoogle's. Do no evil they say
- CamperBob2 3y ago
- samwillis 3y agoApple would absolutely not want to use a competitors, or any other, public LLM. They want to own the whole stack, and will want to have their own secret source as part of it. It's not like they don't have the capital to invest in training...
- whimsicalism 3y agoApple does not have the capability to train a LLM currently.
- samwillis 3y agoI very much doubt that.
- smoldesu 3y agoIf they want to own the whole stack, I don't think they have much to work with. Their highest-end server chip is a duplex laptop SOC, with maxed-out memory that doesn't even match the lowest-end Grace CPU you can buy (nevermind a fully-networked GH200). Their consumer offerings are competitive, but I don't think Apple Silicon or CoreML is ready to seriously compete with Grace and CUDA.
- samwillis 3y agoWhile Apple silicone may not be there for training, I think it's probably there for inference. I expect next years device models to launch with exclusive support for Apples own LLM based Siri.
- smoldesu 3y agoSure. Haswell CPUs from 2014 are "there" for inference if they have AVX support and 8gb of RAM. Inferencing isn't the problem though, not on M1 or Macbooks from 2016. Scaling a desirable (and hopefully open) GPGPU programming interface is. This is bottlenecked by both hardware and software decisions Apple has made, making a "home grown" competitive model much more unlikely in my eyes. I agree that there is an incentive to put AI models on your OS. I just don't think Apple can own the whole stack if they want to play ball right now.
- xbmcuser 3y agoWhat makes you think that. Apple is the company that would be most successful at hiding something like this then introduce it as siri ai or something. Not that they are I am just saying Apple keeps everything close to its chest when it comes to products it might introduce in the future.
- whimsicalism 3y agoI work in the field and they just are not hiring the people they need to be hiring.
- kossTKR 3y agoInteresting. The very early adoption of the neural engines in all Apple products would make you think that they had something brewing. Same with the relatively capable m1/2 GPU's. Various models and stable diffusion runs suprisingly fast on these devices and could be optimised to run much, much faster if Apple actually cared, but they weirdly seem not to.
- reacharavindh 3y agoConsidering how much Apple likes to retain control, I’m almost sure they won’t want to use someone else’s model even if it were free in every sense of the word.
- nerdix 3y agoI think it's aimed at other social networks. TikTok has 1 billion monthly active users for instance
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- VWWHFSfQ 3y agoI think TikTok would just use it anyway even if they were denied a license (if they even bothered asking for one). They've never really cared about that kind of stuff.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- whimsicalism 3y agoAnyone who has ever worked in a major social media company knows that this is false - but as another person who has, I will chime in and say this is completely wrong, compliance (especially such obvious compliance) is taken seriously.
- fmajid 3y agoI worked at a company that caught a major Chinese Internet company (not ByteDance/TikTok, but one even larger) red-handed engaging in deliberate app install ad fraud (their app would send forged Android INSTALL_REFERRER intents), so it would not surprise me.
- pertymcpert 3y agoI'm curious if you've worked at a Chinese company?
- matt_holden 3y agoLook at Snapchat: https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/16/snapchat-announces-750-million-monthly-active-users/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/16/snapchat-announces-750-mil... Just above 700m MAU. So yeah, probably aimed at their direct competitors in social.
- swyx 3y ago> OpenAI's ChatGPT hit 100 million MAUs in January, and has gone down since. poor reading of the numbers. one guy at a bank pulled up similarweb and guesstimated 100m registered users and it went viral. whisper numbers were closer to 50m. but in the 6 months since they have certainly crossed 100m and probably are north of 500m, and only recently dipped.
- minimaxir 3y agoYou are countering whisper numbers with more whisper numbers.
- 1024core 3y agoFight fire with fire..... ?
- moneywoes 3y agoHow do you find Whisper numbers, it’s open source yea?
- gentleman11 3y agoIt's not open source
- fmajid 3y agoHe's making a pun referring to OpenAI's open-sourced Whisper voice recognition model: https://openai.com/research/whisper https://openai.com/research/whisper
- minimaxir 3y agoWhisper numbers are numbers that are secretly shared among industry insiders, not the usage numbers of OpenAI's Whisper.
- nonfamous 3y agoAWS is listed as a partner: https://ai.meta.com/llama/#partnerships https://ai.meta.com/llama/#partnerships
- alexeldeib 3y agonow, that is interesting. Alphabet only big co missing in that list? e: nvm. Apple not there either.
- visarga 3y agoSchool is out, it will pick up again.
- londons_explore 3y agoAlso, any company with 700 million active users wouldn't have much difficulty reproducing this work.
- taneq 3y agoIt's total users, not specifically users of the Llama-2-based product. It's actually quite an elegant way to say "if you're going to produce some super cool new tech with this, let's be friends, unless you're big enough to compete with Facebook in which case rack off."