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I think that if the UK, for example, is overthrown by/elects a Maoist government or something equally crazy, then sure, they could flush their economy down the

I think that if the UK, for example, is overthrown by/elects a Maoist government or something equally crazy, then sure, they could flush their economy down the toilet. I don't think that "being out of the EU" is in the same category.

theironhammer 3y ago
Hmm...Lizz Truss came pretty close.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
The problem is not 'being out of the EU' by itself, its the fact: 1 - for the past 7 years, the government was doing nothing except infighting around brexit. Things like economic policy have been neglected. Straighforward non-political ssues, like the fact that wind farms wait for 10 years to be connected to the grid, are unaddressed. 2 - the current leadership is braindead. They have spent the past few months discussing how they will get rid of all EU laws in one fell swoop, without replacing them or analysing impact. But they cannot answer basic questions - what happens in areas of economy that rely on EU law? Like logically, what happens when you repeal EU law about ebikes? Do ebikes become illegal? Do all ebikes, even with 10 horsepower become legal? I hate the EU ebike law but you cant just delete it.
- nradov 3y ago
  Why can't they just delete certain laws? At some historical point in time that law didn't exist, and most people somehow managed so survive. In a Common Law system, as long as something isn't explicitly illegal then it's legal.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > as long as something isn't explicitly illegal then it's legal. Good, good, so now that you have deleted 50 years of law from UK, what are those things you've just legalised? Certainly some types of Money laundering, probably a few types of financial fraud, carcinogens in food, and driving high-powered electric motorbikes without any kind of training or licence? > Most people somehow managed so survive Most people survived World War 2, and in Nagasaki most people survived getting nuked. In fact at least 50% of the population manages to survive almost anything. On the other hand, in Victorian Britain 1/3 of kids never reached age 5, so there is that. Also many didn't survive child labour in the coal mines.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Come on, lose the hyperbole. The UK wasn't even an EU member for 50 years and removing some of those laws isn't going to increase child mortality.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        I'm of the opinion that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" should also command the law-makers to keep it simple enough that the average person understands the rules that bind them, and also their own options if someone wrongs them. As such, I would be in favour of getting rid of every law we can. Thing is though, lots of politicians have shared similar sentiments, and completely failed to achieve this in office. That makes me think it's harder than it sounds to avoid undesirable consequences — figuring out which laws are in the set of "some" that won't increase child (or indeed adult) mortality, for example.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Same reason I can't "just delete" lines of code and expect my app to compile, even though there was a time before I put the line in and where it did compile. Although in this context, common law is more like an interpreted language like JavaScript, so the app will keep running and then randomly just stop because of the missing lines. For e-scooters, or whatever? Might be fine, might be nobody will insure them, which means they can't be legally on the road, which might be fine (because the police just assume it is) right until someone has an accident and it gets to a court case for driving without insurance…
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    > At some historical point in time that law didn't exist, and most people somehow managed so survive Generally, existing laws either superseded pre-existing laws (which may well have been repealed by the same process) or regulatory frameworks (which may or may not be still operable).
fmajid 3y ago
Don’t have to be left-wing. Liz Truss did an amazing job of flushing the country down the drain, specially considering half her short tenure was concerned with the death of the queen.

theironhammer 3y ago

Hmm...Lizz Truss came pretty close.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

The problem is not 'being out of the EU' by itself, its the fact: 1 - for the past 7 years, the government was doing nothing except infighting around brexit. Things like economic policy have been neglected. Straighforward non-political ssues, like the fact that wind farms wait for 10 years to be connected to the grid, are unaddressed. 2 - the current leadership is braindead. They have spent the past few months discussing how they will get rid of all EU laws in one fell swoop, without replacing them or analysing impact. But they cannot answer basic questions - what happens in areas of economy that rely on EU law? Like logically, what happens when you repeal EU law about ebikes? Do ebikes become illegal? Do all ebikes, even with 10 horsepower become legal? I hate the EU ebike law but you cant just delete it.

nradov 3y ago
Why can't they just delete certain laws? At some historical point in time that law didn't exist, and most people somehow managed so survive. In a Common Law system, as long as something isn't explicitly illegal then it's legal.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > as long as something isn't explicitly illegal then it's legal. Good, good, so now that you have deleted 50 years of law from UK, what are those things you've just legalised? Certainly some types of Money laundering, probably a few types of financial fraud, carcinogens in food, and driving high-powered electric motorbikes without any kind of training or licence? > Most people somehow managed so survive Most people survived World War 2, and in Nagasaki most people survived getting nuked. In fact at least 50% of the population manages to survive almost anything. On the other hand, in Victorian Britain 1/3 of kids never reached age 5, so there is that. Also many didn't survive child labour in the coal mines.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Come on, lose the hyperbole. The UK wasn't even an EU member for 50 years and removing some of those laws isn't going to increase child mortality.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      I'm of the opinion that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" should also command the law-makers to keep it simple enough that the average person understands the rules that bind them, and also their own options if someone wrongs them. As such, I would be in favour of getting rid of every law we can. Thing is though, lots of politicians have shared similar sentiments, and completely failed to achieve this in office. That makes me think it's harder than it sounds to avoid undesirable consequences — figuring out which laws are in the set of "some" that won't increase child (or indeed adult) mortality, for example.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Same reason I can't "just delete" lines of code and expect my app to compile, even though there was a time before I put the line in and where it did compile. Although in this context, common law is more like an interpreted language like JavaScript, so the app will keep running and then randomly just stop because of the missing lines. For e-scooters, or whatever? Might be fine, might be nobody will insure them, which means they can't be legally on the road, which might be fine (because the police just assume it is) right until someone has an accident and it gets to a court case for driving without insurance…
- rsynnott 3y ago
  > At some historical point in time that law didn't exist, and most people somehow managed so survive Generally, existing laws either superseded pre-existing laws (which may well have been repealed by the same process) or regulatory frameworks (which may or may not be still operable).

fmajid 3y ago

Don’t have to be left-wing. Liz Truss did an amazing job of flushing the country down the drain, specially considering half her short tenure was concerned with the death of the queen.