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> By my own anecdotal estimation Well here is an actual study that found the poorest 20% of Americans consumed more goods and services than the average people

> By my own anecdotal estimation Well here is an actual study that found the poorest 20% of Americans consumed more goods and services than the average people from affluent countries. Including Europe. https://www.justfacts.com/news_poorest_americans_richer_than_europe https://www.justfacts.com/news_poorest_americans_richer_than... This matches my anecdotal observations of everything being smaller in Europe, people owning less, and energy being so expensive.

amrocha 3y ago
Consumption is a terrible proxy for quality of life. It's also terribly USAian of you.
- derelicta 3y ago
  don't you know CONSUM = HAPPY ?
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    Pollution is good. Consume more. Money before anything else. Buy more junk. L Btw, we need budget for more They Live glasses to distribute freely
  - lionkor 3y ago
    It's got what plants crave.
- didntcheck 3y ago
  Not really. Europeans aren't some superior noble ascetics. People want to consume, and their demand exceeds their ability in practically all situations. So USians are getting more of what they want while most Europeans would jump at the ability to do the same. For the record, I am European myself
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Not really. Europeans aren't some superior noble ascetics. Indeed. In my town center, on the weekends, the streets are full of Teslas, luxury cars and SUVs of the well off people from the suburbs with nice houses, coming to the city for shopping and indulgence in various forms of consumerism and showing off (mostly inherited) wealth. Europeans are just poorer and more unequally wealthy than Americans, with fewer people owing most of the wealth, not more righteous.
    - oblio 3y ago
      > Europeans are just poorer and more unequally wealthy than Americans, with fewer people owing most of the wealth, not more righteous. Europeans are poorer but the US generally has higher inequality, whether you look at Gini, IHDI or mean versus median wealth. Especially the wealth comparison is jarring for the US (about 6:1, most of Europe is at 2:1 or 3:1). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Wealth inequality is higher in the richer EU countries than it is in the US, so is upwards mobility. You Wikipedia link does not disprove that.
        oblio 3y ago
        Sources? The data I've seen says the exact opposite. Edit: Also my link has the Gini inequality index as the last column, where the US is literally sandwiched between Congo and Algeria, towards the bottom...
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        https://archive.is/Gg6k8 https://archive.is/Gg6k8 Also, in the GINI table on the wiki page, Netherlands and Sweden have more wealth inequality than the US. Also, I find the GINI formula quite flawed as it puts India as being more equal than many EU states which I find hard to believe. To me wealth inequality is how much of the country's wealth the top % own versus the bottom %, and at least in Germany and Austria it's pretty bad.
raverbashing 3y ago
> 20% of Americans consumed more goods and services than the average people from affluent countries I wonder how much of those are things like "credit protection fees", "check printing fees", CC anual fees (of multiple CCs) or just paying hundreds of dollars for a medical consultation even after copay, etc > everything being smaller in Europe, people owning less Your car does not need to be a d*ck measuring contest, and public transport usually works
- pas 3y ago
  those fees go somewhere though. of course apparently almost all of that goes into the pockets of the upper 10%, and they then spend it on PACs, country club memberships, golf carts, boats, etc. but then even those go somewhere, and apparently almost all of that goes back to the US economy through underpaid semi-legal wages. (and then some of that goes back to countries where the undocumented immigrants' are from, and then that goes to pay for plane tickets, so more people can try their luck in the US.) circle of life!
piaste 3y ago
This is an odd set of numbers. Italy is higher than Norway; Portugal is higher than Denmark. It suggests that whatever they are measuring is not very intuitive.
cjrp 3y ago
Maybe that says more about the availability of consumer credit though?

amrocha 3y ago

Consumption is a terrible proxy for quality of life. It's also terribly USAian of you.

derelicta 3y ago
don't you know CONSUM = HAPPY ?
- beebeepka 3y ago
  Pollution is good. Consume more. Money before anything else. Buy more junk. L Btw, we need budget for more They Live glasses to distribute freely
- lionkor 3y ago
  It's got what plants crave.
didntcheck 3y ago
Not really. Europeans aren't some superior noble ascetics. People want to consume, and their demand exceeds their ability in practically all situations. So USians are getting more of what they want while most Europeans would jump at the ability to do the same. For the record, I am European myself
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Not really. Europeans aren't some superior noble ascetics. Indeed. In my town center, on the weekends, the streets are full of Teslas, luxury cars and SUVs of the well off people from the suburbs with nice houses, coming to the city for shopping and indulgence in various forms of consumerism and showing off (mostly inherited) wealth. Europeans are just poorer and more unequally wealthy than Americans, with fewer people owing most of the wealth, not more righteous.
  - oblio 3y ago
    > Europeans are just poorer and more unequally wealthy than Americans, with fewer people owing most of the wealth, not more righteous. Europeans are poorer but the US generally has higher inequality, whether you look at Gini, IHDI or mean versus median wealth. Especially the wealth comparison is jarring for the US (about 6:1, most of Europe is at 2:1 or 3:1). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Wealth inequality is higher in the richer EU countries than it is in the US, so is upwards mobility. You Wikipedia link does not disprove that.
      - oblio 3y ago
        Sources? The data I've seen says the exact opposite. Edit: Also my link has the Gini inequality index as the last column, where the US is literally sandwiched between Congo and Algeria, towards the bottom...
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        https://archive.is/Gg6k8 https://archive.is/Gg6k8 Also, in the GINI table on the wiki page, Netherlands and Sweden have more wealth inequality than the US. Also, I find the GINI formula quite flawed as it puts India as being more equal than many EU states which I find hard to believe. To me wealth inequality is how much of the country's wealth the top % own versus the bottom %, and at least in Germany and Austria it's pretty bad.

raverbashing 3y ago

> 20% of Americans consumed more goods and services than the average people from affluent countries I wonder how much of those are things like "credit protection fees", "check printing fees", CC anual fees (of multiple CCs) or just paying hundreds of dollars for a medical consultation even after copay, etc > everything being smaller in Europe, people owning less Your car does not need to be a d*ck measuring contest, and public transport usually works

pas 3y ago
those fees go somewhere though. of course apparently almost all of that goes into the pockets of the upper 10%, and they then spend it on PACs, country club memberships, golf carts, boats, etc. but then even those go somewhere, and apparently almost all of that goes back to the US economy through underpaid semi-legal wages. (and then some of that goes back to countries where the undocumented immigrants' are from, and then that goes to pay for plane tickets, so more people can try their luck in the US.) circle of life!

piaste 3y ago

This is an odd set of numbers. Italy is higher than Norway; Portugal is higher than Denmark. It suggests that whatever they are measuring is not very intuitive.

cjrp 3y ago

Maybe that says more about the availability of consumer credit though?