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It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. The US wanted to sell its more expensive LNG. And it ended up getting its wish after it supporte

It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. The US wanted to sell its more expensive LNG. And it ended up getting its wish after it supported a western aligned Ukraine and while no one wants to claim responsibility for blowing up nordstream, someone definitely blew it up and it helped cement the US as the gas supplier of Europe. I think the message is clear that it’s best not to upset the US.

blibble 3y ago
> It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. see I can understand this logic pre 2014, but post 2014 (i.e. Crimea), absolutely not the euros paid to putin were used to re-arm and those weapons are now being used in Ukraine and if he wins then Eastern Europe is next in line but yes germans saved 2% on their gas bills for 10 years
- FpUser 3y ago
  >"and if he wins then Eastern Europe is next in line" I doubt Putin is suicidal. Eastern Europe is in NATO, hence protected.
  - blibble 3y ago
    it'll never be so obvious that NATO can declare it as an attack you've seen the playbook in ukraine twice now there will be an russian speaking minority in estonia/lithuania/... that will that rebel against anti russian oppression, guerilla warfare against the authorities, then they'll hold an rigged referendum, then a decade later the Russian government will formally annex what they've effectively controlled for years he won't send tanks across the border that will trigger Article 5
    - FpUser 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - blibble 3y ago
        they're not oppressed, that's the point
      - lisasays 3y ago
        In Ukraine Russian speakers are hardly the minority. What's this supposed to mean? Certainly it's not referring to the portion of native speakers.
        FpUser 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#:~:text=As%20per%20a%20February%202023,found%20it%20difficult%20to%20say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#:~....
    - severino 3y ago
      > that will that rebel against anti russian oppression So you mean it's OK to oppress people just because they are Russian, or speak Russian? And the bad guys are those against oppression?
  - sharikous 3y ago
    Eh but Wagner is not the Russian army, right? They are an "independent contractor" after all. And Russian speaking minorities may "suddenly" decide to rebel. And NATO may be not so eager to activate article 5 since they are not suicidal too. Long story short I am not sure NATO Eastern Europe is protected 100%. Luckily for now Putin cannot afford another front but there is already some saber rattling between Belarus and Poland and Wagner is in Belarus.
nonethewiser 3y ago
It was economical for Germany to partner with Russia at the expense of Ukraine.
SubjectToChange 3y ago
Do you really believe that the USA would commit an act of war against Russia to… sell Europe natural gas?
- dougmwne 3y ago
  The US supplies weapons, training, intelligence and logistics to just one side in an active war. Clearly “act of war” is a line they’ve been dancing on for awhile. And I don’t know who did the sabotage, and I don’t know if it was on the suggestion of the US, but the winner certainly seems to be the US which has very effectively pulled Germany away from Russia and Russian energy markets.

blibble 3y ago

> It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. see I can understand this logic pre 2014, but post 2014 (i.e. Crimea), absolutely not the euros paid to putin were used to re-arm and those weapons are now being used in Ukraine and if he wins then Eastern Europe is next in line but yes germans saved 2% on their gas bills for 10 years

FpUser 3y ago
>"and if he wins then Eastern Europe is next in line" I doubt Putin is suicidal. Eastern Europe is in NATO, hence protected.
- blibble 3y ago
  it'll never be so obvious that NATO can declare it as an attack you've seen the playbook in ukraine twice now there will be an russian speaking minority in estonia/lithuania/... that will that rebel against anti russian oppression, guerilla warfare against the authorities, then they'll hold an rigged referendum, then a decade later the Russian government will formally annex what they've effectively controlled for years he won't send tanks across the border that will trigger Article 5
  - FpUser 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - blibble 3y ago
      they're not oppressed, that's the point
    - lisasays 3y ago
      In Ukraine Russian speakers are hardly the minority. What's this supposed to mean? Certainly it's not referring to the portion of native speakers.
      - FpUser 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#:~:text=As%20per%20a%20February%202023,found%20it%20difficult%20to%20say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine#:~....
  - severino 3y ago
    > that will that rebel against anti russian oppression So you mean it's OK to oppress people just because they are Russian, or speak Russian? And the bad guys are those against oppression?
- sharikous 3y ago
  Eh but Wagner is not the Russian army, right? They are an "independent contractor" after all. And Russian speaking minorities may "suddenly" decide to rebel. And NATO may be not so eager to activate article 5 since they are not suicidal too. Long story short I am not sure NATO Eastern Europe is protected 100%. Luckily for now Putin cannot afford another front but there is already some saber rattling between Belarus and Poland and Wagner is in Belarus.

nonethewiser 3y ago

It was economical for Germany to partner with Russia at the expense of Ukraine.

SubjectToChange 3y ago

Do you really believe that the USA would commit an act of war against Russia to… sell Europe natural gas?

dougmwne 3y ago
The US supplies weapons, training, intelligence and logistics to just one side in an active war. Clearly “act of war” is a line they’ve been dancing on for awhile. And I don’t know who did the sabotage, and I don’t know if it was on the suggestion of the US, but the winner certainly seems to be the US which has very effectively pulled Germany away from Russia and Russian energy markets.