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I drink diet sodas. I have received many emails/calls/texts from friends and family telling me about the "news" of them being a possible carcinogen. To every
by sandworm101 3y ago
I drink diet sodas. I have received many emails/calls/texts from friends and family telling me about the "news" of them being a possible carcinogen. To every such person I say: Alcohol is a KNOWN carcinogen. Drinking alcohol causes cancer. So don't lecture me about drinking diet coke until you have given up on beer.
- spiderfarmer 3y agoI usually just drink water. You should try it, it’s awesome.
- sandworm101 3y agoAnd diet soda, beer, milk, vodka and most every other beverage is technically also "mostly water".
- kcplate 3y agoUgly bags of mostly water?
- BrianHutch 3y agoDeep STTNG cut there.
- johntfella 3y agoOn my property I have both a well and a spring so that's what I generally use. Recent outing in the city reminded me of the chlorine they use. It was kind of an amusing episode as drinking the water at the restaurant I had sworn maybe the glasses weren't fully rinsed so the waitress brought out another and made sure it was clean.. still tasted of chlorine. So I had her fill my canister up thinking it was just a detergent they were using.. still tasted of chlorine so I presumed it must be the water and remembered that indeed chlorine/chloramine is added to public supplies. I don't know if that will prove to be a problem in the future and most things that claim to be are a bit on the tin foil hat tent that said a recent study does seem to show minimal impact on gut biome (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41564-022-01101-3 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41564-022-01101-3) .. whether there is a compounding effect down line who knows.. but could explain some of the issues that differentiate between farm communities and urban dwellings (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kidsallergies/amish-farm-kids-remarkably-immune-to-allergies-study-idUSBRE8431J920120504 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kidsallergies/amish-farm-...)
- wkat4242 3y agoChlorine is annoying but so is legionnaire disease (which can deadly) or a gastrointestinal infection.
- johntfella 3y agoMost wells these days go with uv, not sure if that handles that. Personally I don't bother, but I also pull from creeks and rivers nearby for more tainted water with the intention of exposure. Been doing it for decades now. Wouldn't recommend it. That said, uv might be a plausible answer (I know a few public wells where you pay to fill up which is treated with uv and is all they use).
- zdragnar 3y agoMost people on well water (are recommended to) test once a year for bacteria, and don't bother with UV filters unless they need to, in my experience.
- wkat4242 3y agoUV works well but the problem is bacteria can build up in water lines. So you'd have to UV sterilize it at every tap point or at least every house. Chlorine is easier for this.
- johntfella 3y agoMakes sense, ie why there can be the centralize well water depots etc. I'm thankful that it's not something I have to rely on indeed.
- amluto 3y agoMonochloramine, on the other hand, is barely perceptible at a couple ppm. (It also produces less in the way of disinfection byproducts, which is good if the water contains anything that might react nastily with chlorine. And it’s much more persistent, which is good or bad depending on your perspective. You need to take special measures to remove it if you want to water a fish and potentially if you want to brew beer. As far as I can tell, it has no meaningful effect on an established sourdough starter. I assume that the large population of microbes in established starter is able to neutralize the small amounts of chloramine in tap water.)
- moffkalast 3y agoBelieve it or not, cancer. https://www.aaas.org/epi-center/pfas https://www.aaas.org/epi-center/pfas
- decafninja 3y agoPlain water bores me. It just doesn’t satisfy cravings. I know it’s arguably the best beverage to consume, but I find it really hard to choose water over nearly any other kind of beverage. I know I’m not alone. Sparkling water has become my go-to. It does satisfy my cravings, and I’m sure it’s immeasurably better for health than my previous go-to Diet Coke.
- FredPret 3y agoTry drinking a large amount of water, like a gallon, every day for a week. I did this and my palate changed completely.
- dctoedt 3y ago> I did this and my palate changed completely. Mind if I ask: How so?
- randallsquared 3y agoI dunno about a week, but it only took me about three weeks to switch from regular soda to diet soda, back in the mid-nineties, and I really didn't like the taste of diet soda when I started. After 2-3L a day of diet for several weeks regular Mountain Dew tasted sickeningly sweet and I no longer wanted it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- themitigating 3y agoSimilar experience here. The sweetness of regular coke bothers me. Diet coke is more tart and sweet. I also love Diet Redbull for the taste however it still has a small number of calories and carbs so they make Redbull Zero which I can't stand
- mixedCase 3y agoIt's just what the human palate does. It adapts to circumstance. Skip sugar and sweet stuff for a few months and when you try it again everything tastes much sweeter than before. Same with salt. Same with acidity. And surely other things I haven't tried and corroborated with peers.
- robotburrito 3y agoHow the heck do you expect me to do wicked 360 kick flips and other extreme sports activities without soda? Water just doesn't cut it :)
- cj 3y agoSeltzer water + caffeine pill! /s
- rjh29 3y agoI only eat huel 3 meals a day. You should try it, it's awesome. Why enjoy food?
- dna_polymerase 3y agoI don't think I've ever seen somebody being convinced by Whataboutism.
- try_the_bass 3y agoAnd yet it's the single most common rhetorical tactic I see employed by people to defend their own beliefs, especially political ones. Seems to work on some subset of the population.
- dwaite 3y agoI works great for defense, terribly for convincing.
- BeetleB 3y agoThe goal here isn't to convince them, but to get them to go away. The message is "If you want to convince me to drop diet coke, you have to be prepared to discuss your alcohol consumption." It's not an academic conversation, nor is it meant to be one.
- Dylan16807 3y agoI don't think this is whataboutism, really. Part of it is frustration, but more it's an attempt to get them to recalibrate their idea of "carcinogen". Carcinogens are not some list of ultra dangers to strictly avoid. We're too good at detecting them.
- neom 3y agoList of things known by the state of California to cause cancer: https://oehha.ca.gov/media/downloads/proposition-65/p65chemicalslistsinglelisttable2021p.pdf https://oehha.ca.gov/media/downloads/proposition-65/p65chemi... Funnily, Aspartame isn't on there but Aloe vera is... O.o (my fav is wood dust)
- sandworm101 3y agoFine point: that is the list of substances that cause cancer, which is a more narrow set than "things" that cause cancer. The number one thing that increases a person's risk of cancer is age. After age, physical and genetic dispositions (aka family history) are also "things" that elevate cancer risks.
- gymbeaux 3y ago“Age” is more like “time spent exposed to carcinogens”
- petsfed 3y agoI mean, wood dust is no joke. Because of its size, you can end up with micro wounds all throughout the respitory system, and those in turn act as something like a nucleation site for infections and cancer. If you're doing a lot of sanding or running a lathe or mill, you can lose decades of your life by not using proper dust control schemes.
- uuddlrlrbaba 3y agoWhataboutism is fun! Car exhaust is a KNOWN carcinogen. So don't lecture me on beer until you've given up on fossil fuel.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- NotMichaelBay 3y agoCalling it whataboutism is disingenuous, they're specifically talking about hypocrisy.
- tester89 3y agoThe point is relative risk, in particular the poster's friends are warning them about Aspartame, while drinking alcohol, which has significantly larger confirmed health risks. If they believe drinking alcohol is safe in the quantities that they do (and given that most health authorities now point out there is no safe level of alcohol to drink), then it's irrational to worry about Aspartame.
- tshaddox 3y agoThe comment doesn't make any point about relative risk. They're only mocking their friend for telling them about something unhealthy when their friend also does unhealthy things. As if it somehow cancels out.
- tester89 3y agoIt’s implied. > I drink diet sodas. I have received many emails/calls/texts from friends and family telling me about the "news" of them being a possible carcinogen. To every such person I say: Alcohol is a KNOWN carcinogen. Drinking alcohol causes cancer. So don't lecture me about drinking diet coke until you have given up on beer The poster compares the risk of aspartame being a « possible carcinogen » to Alcohol, which is a « KNOWN carcinogen », specifically comparing the different classifications.
- barbazoo 3y agoI hope next time my friends or family point me to something I do that's potentially harmful I won't justify it by pointing to something that they're doing that's harmful.
- dwaite 3y agoI hope the next time my friends watch a fear piece about something unproven to be harmful, they'll understand my frustration about their hypocrisy when they continue to participate in activities that are proven to be harmful.
- graypegg 3y agoThere’s a pretty big gap between alcohol which we highly regulate and keep away from minors due to the pretty obvious harm, and aspartame which is pretty commonly cited as the “most studied food additive”. [0] One is really clearly signalled as “bad for you”, even if it is extremely common. The other one is basically seen as an inert implementation detail. I can totally see why people put more fear behind the evil they didn’t even know existed vs the evil they choose to ignore. [0] https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/aspartame-and-other-sweeteners-food#:~:text=Aspartame%20is%20one%20of%20the,is%20approved%20in%20many%20countries https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/aspartame-....
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago> One is really clearly signalled as “bad for you” I cannot easily express in words how stunningly false this is. Alcohol is signaled over and over and over and over across all forms of information as fun, relaxing, sexy, festive, appealing, exciting, luxurious, and sometimes even healthful in moderation. Any notion of it being bad for you is relegated to small print messages specifically about pregnancy and driving.
- graypegg 3y agoYeah of course, there’s advertising. There’s also advertising for cigarettes. Stunningly false is a bit strong. What I mean is: no one thinks consuming alcohol is good for them. At worst they might think it’s health-neutral in the amount that they drink, but the majority of people know it’s bad for them. It’s been effectively communicated, by laws and culture around booze, that it’s a thing for adults to choose to do, and accept consequences from. (Hangovers, drunk driving, abuse, and many other societal ills that are pretty cliche and well known) Just because the people making it, leave off the consequences, doesn’t mean everyone is brainwashed.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago> There’s also advertising for cigarettes. Notably there's a LOT LESS advertising for cigarettes than for alcohol in the US. Cigarette ads are banned in most media here. But sexy night club intrigue alcohol TV spots still abound. > it’s a thing for adults to choose to do, and accept consequences from. (Hangovers, drunk driving, abuse, and many other societal ills that are pretty cliche and well known) This is true, but I think the strongest statement we can make is that everyone believes that the good vastly outweighs the bad, otherwise we'd all stop. > What I mean is: no one thinks consuming alcohol is good for them. Even with very specific and reductionist notions of "good for" we have decades of "red wine is good for you" reports. Beyond that, relaxation and fun are good for you. We know this because we also have a lot of media telling us. > the majority of people know it’s bad for them Like a billion people out there think that God actually talks to them and tells them what to do on a daily basis, so I bet you're significantly overestimating.
- ChatGTP 3y agoDon't you just feel like you're getting nothing in return from diet soda? It just tastes wrong and you're ingesting chemicals you probably don't need. A relative of mine who drank diet coke daily just had her bladder out due to cancer and she never really drank alcohol and took awesome care of herself. She suspected her diet-coke habit and in light of this news, she might be right. I get it, this is HN, I need numbers, not anecdotes, but it sure is curious.
- tptacek 3y agoDiet Coke doesn't cause bladder cancer.
- dieselgate 3y agoSometimes I drink diet soda, it is more of an acquired taste after a while but is fine.
- function_seven 3y ago> Don't you just feel like you're getting nothing in return from diet soda? That’s how I describe water. Unless I’m really thirsty, water is just … nothing. Diet Coke has crisp, light flavor. And the aspartame only tasted weird way way back when I switched from sugar soda. On just taste alone I prefer Diet Coke to the regular kind and to Coke Zero. I probably should reduce or eliminate it, but it’s just so good.
- tptacek 3y agoI think about this too. I can drink a cup or two of water over a couple hours... unless I squeeze a little bit of lemon into it, in which case I can drink myself hyponatremic. It's the same, to an extent, with things like Diet 7-Up. If being super well hydrated is a good thing, then I guess what I get out of flavored drinks is ultrahydration? I don't know why this is. Seltzer doesn't do it. I assumed it had something to do with sodium, but, then, the lemon works too.
- CyberDildonics 3y ago
- YetAnotherNick 3y agoMy favourite chart for this situation is Everything causes and cures cancer[1]. [1]: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3523382/Medical_studies-05.0.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3523382/Me...
- rubslopes 3y agoWhat's going on with the x-axis?
- iisan7 3y agorelative risk in terms of a ratio: <1.0 means less, >1 means increased risk compared to the control group. E.g., one study showed that beef reduced risk of cancer by 50%, another showed that it increased risk by 500%
- zakki 3y agoIn the chart is beef causing cancer or preventing it?
- mdavidn 3y agoEither, depending on which study you accept.
- ruszki 3y agoThe question is the problem. The answer is not a yes/no, but a point on a scale of multiple dimensions. Most of these studies don’t answer the question asked here, but a completely different question. And also most of these studies don’t answer the same question. Heck, it’s even a good guess that none of these studies answers the question asked here, because it’s rather difficult to make a double blind test about such questions.
- WheatMillington 3y agoYes.
- helf 3y ago[dead]
- Affric 3y agoI quit sugar sweetened drinks in my early 20s. All sweet drinks in my late 20s. In my 30s I have cut my alcohol consumption down hugely but for my little rat brain the risk reward vs sweetness is a different balance. I think one of the most valuable things through my quest to eat right was people challenging my behaviour vs my knowledge. I made a lot about the fact I quit sugary drinks after writing a lit review on their health effects. My friends pointed out that I had deliberately excluded artificial sweeteners from my lit review and my knowledge. Then I was challenged about my love of dessert. I think being called a hypocrite and told I was stupid and coming to agree with the underlying criticism has been a big part of my growth as a person. But if drinking drinks sweetened with aspartame is your only vice then you're doing pretty well.
- ac130kz 3y agoWell, it is known to change one's gut biome, which is not good either since gut bacteria control your mood, appetite, digestion capabilities. Nothing beats clean, non-tap water at room temperature.
- DanHulton 3y agoI mean, a lot of things beat it, if your priorities are something other than "drinking the healthiest thing possible."
- ac130kz 3y agoTrue, my granddad is 96, worked at a coal coking factory, recently overcome COVID, and is still a totally capable person. Like his body doesn't give a damn about challenges.
- themitigating 3y agoWhy can't they lecture you until they stop drinking alcohol?
- TylerE 3y agoOxygen is a known carcinogen.
- xinayder 3y agoI drink alcohol to get plastered in social settings. I know it's unhealthy and the risks associated with it. I don't drink every day, mostly on social settings which happen like once or twice every couple of weeks. I drink soft drinks more often than alcohol. I hate artificial sweeteners not just because of the taste, but all my life I've heard the fact that those sweeteners are carcinogenic, especially the cheapest ones (like aspartame). Honestly, it doesn't help that most studies that say artificial sweeteners are safe were funded by the drinks companies themselves and obviously they will be biased towards what makes them have most profit from it. I think adding the sweeteners to this list of potentially carcinogenic and asking for more neutral, unbiased studies is a step on the right direction. If a soft drink contains sweeteners, I simply refuse to drink it. Honestly, I'd rather have a beer which tastes worse than a coca-cola, for example, than to have to drink diet cola.
- scotty79 3y agoBasically all established science indicates that your behavior is exactly wrong.
- xinayder 3y agoI find it a healthier alternative than to blindly believe artificial sweeteners (which are cheaper and chemical products) are actually healthier.
- scotty79 3y agoThere's nothing healthy about sugars and alcohol. If you want healthier, science indicates you should skip those along with whatever else you are skipping for whatever reason.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoArtificial sweeteners contribute to obesity. It seems that they trigger carbohydrate cravings and cause sugar crashes in the body, albeit with an absence of sugar. The body receives that sweet taste and expects calories and carbs, but what to do when they don't materialize? We weren't designed for artificial sweeteners, carcinogen or not.