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Ford slashes prices of F-150 Lightning trucks as EV wars heat up
- DoesntMatter22 3y agoThis is like a competition to see who can lose the most money
- oblib 3y agoExactly!
- oblib 3y ago$92,000 for their "Platinum" model. I am surrounded by farmers where I live and there's no way they'll be buying those. I'm stunned that anyone would pay that much for a pickup truck. A new Mercedes-Benz E-Class E 350 cost $56,750, just slightly more than Ford's lowest priced EV Pickup. Ford's leaders seem to be way out of touch with working class folks and their sales reports are showing it.
- Analemma_ 3y ago> Ford's leaders seem to be way out of touch with working class folks To be honest, I think you're the one who is out of touch. The vast majority of pickup trucks sold in the United States are luxury vehicles bought for the purpose of conspicuous consumption, and haul goods only incidentally. Ford knows this and markets/prices the F-150 accordingly.
- a2tech 3y agoCorrect. Most F-150s are toys. My family were die hard, dyed in the wool union Ford guys, but they finally, begrudgingly, had to switch to Toyota in the 2000s because they 1) couldn't afford Ford trucks (even bare bones ones) 2) were clearly designed for weekend toy pursuits and not real work (everything switched to electric actuation and control panels, carpeted interiors) 3) were too tall for even a tall man to reach in and grab something out of the bed from the side and 4) had a lower ground clearance than the older trucks even though they sat up higher.
- lambdasquirrel 3y ago> had a lower ground clearance than the older trucks even though they sat up higher Honest question… do we know how?… (I believe it, FWIW)
- klyrs 3y agoOlder trucks exist. You can actually drive them. And it's summer, people are out driving their classics and taking them to shows. Most of those folks try to keep everything original.
- Avshalom 3y agoGround clearance is limited by your drive train while ride height can be as tall as you want it.
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoPortal axle like on the Mercedes G550 4x4 squared.
- a2tech 3y agoI seem to recall it had some parts of the transmission that hung down low and part of the..braking? system that was also very low. Everyone was very upset about it at the time.
- davidbanham 3y agoTaller panels on the side of the tub combined with lower hanging side steps, wheel wells and transmission components.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- DrThunder 3y agoThis has zero to do with what people want to buy. If people actually thought the way you seem to think they do, they'd have switched out for a small efficient gas mileage vehicle long ago. No one buying a truck cares that it's only for occasional haul use. They want that option to be there when they do use it. You're welcome to go explain to an average F-150 buyer why they shouldn't get to have what they want, or what they paid for with their hard earned money. I'm sure you telling them they only haul stuff occasionally will totally change their minds.
- Analemma_ 3y agoYou're reading a lot of stuff into my comment that I did not say, and getting furious at a strawman of my beliefs.
- DrThunder 3y agoI'm not reading into anything. This is a discussion about people buying stuff and Ford cutting the price because no one wants it. You disagreeing with them buying a certain vehicle because you subjectively don't think they need it, isn't relevant to the discussion at all. Would you like to explain why your subjective take on disliking F-150's or trucks in general has anything to do with whether the Lightning is a competitive product? What does this have to do with the average truck buyer wanting a truck? You responded to a comment telling someone else they were out of touch with what people wanted. You response to this individual was that YOU personally don't like trucks and don't think people need them. How is this representative of the truck buying market?
- Eddy_Viscosity2 3y agoNext time you're out, count how may pickup trucks you see hauling things vs ones that clearly have never hauled anything bigger than a set of golf clubs, which would actually be put in the back seat of quad cab because you don't want them rolling around.
- nunez 3y agoEspecially the Lightning, whose range gets decimated the minute you haul any serious payload with it
- MBCook 3y agoSo first of all there is a premium for buying an EV. It’s going down in general, but it’s there. The 4x4 Limited 4 door SuperCrew 5.5 ft. SB (don’t know what that means) gas F-150 lists for $84k new. People DO buy them at these prices. You may not think it makes sense, and I agree a fair bit, but they sell. I was unable to find the average selling price over the last year but I bet that it’s in the 50 to 60 territory.
- arprocter 3y agoI believe SB is short bed
- zdragnar 3y agoGas F-150s really target more of the luxury-recreation suburbanite crowd than the farmer crowd. If you're going to be regularly towing a lot of weight, or need to move something big, you probably want a bigger model, probably diesel, and probably not the crew cab. A new F350, regular cab, starts around 50k[0]. The crew starts I think around 60, but most I've seen are definitely at least 75[1]. Anyone paying 80+ for an F150 is gonna get one hell of a nice ride, but it definitely isn't aimed at farmers 0 https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=684478275&%3Fdistance=100&year=2023&searchtype=new&atcmake=Ford&atcmodel=F350&vehicleId=464874&listingid=684478275&totalresults=37&index=5&clicktype=inv https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listi... 1 https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/686365914?vehicleid=464874&manufacturerid=15&modelid=848&yearid=2023&fpphigh=75350&fpp=73613&msrp=75350&manufacturername=ford&modelname=f350-super-duty-regular-cab&stylename=xlt&clicktype=elot https://www.kbb.com/cars-for-sale/686365914?vehicleid=464874...
- lockhouse 3y agoUnless they significantly improve battery capacity when hauling and towing, I doubt many farmers will be interested in it at any price. This seems aimed at suburban buyers instead of farmers to me.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoIn my experience most farmers have solar panels and spend thousands per month on fuel. The thought of "free fuel" will have farmers salivating. Also, they're heavily self-reliant, so reducing their dependencies on regular fuel deliveries will also be highly appealing.
- chrisco255 3y agoNo, most farmers don't have solar panels. But nevermind free fuel, they have practical work to do. Most farmers are using diesel F350 or similar class pickups because they need 20K to 30K pounds of towing capacity. The F150 lightning or regular gasoline F150 even cannot compete with a diesel engine for doing work.
- WheatMillington 3y agoFarming must be extremely different in America. Here in New Zealand, where agriculture is our primary industry, those massive trucks are extremely rare. The biggest selling cars for farmers are, by a massive margin, the Ford Ranger and the Toyota Hilux.
- temp_praneshp 3y agoThis is a dishonest cherry-pick. Those farmers are probably targets for the base Pro version. 92k is not way above what a Denali or F-150 limited costs. "The base Pro variant of Lightning now carries a suggested retail price of $49,995, compared to its prior price of $59,974, while the higher-end Platinum model will cost about 6.2% less, at $91,995."
- skyyler 3y agoYou clearly don't talk or pay attention to your neighbors. Trucks are _the_ conspicuous consumption good for rural Americans. It's the easiest way to project wealth. Have you ever seen an F-250 Platinum or an F-150 King Ranch? Those aren't for working class folks, they're for owners.
- chrisco255 3y agoI'm sorry but neither of those trim packages are out of reach for middle class, and especially if bought used, within reach of "working class" people, whatever that means as there is no fixed definition. Trucks have shot up dramatically in price in the past few years, however.
- _ea1k 3y agoThe King Ranch starts at ~64k and I bet most go for more, once they are optioned out. These are luxury vehicles at those trim levels.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoAverage price of a new car is around 49k. What’s an extra $15k-20k when you’re financing for 5, 6, 7 years? Yeah, it’s financially irresponsible, but this is America. The entire system is built on spenders vs savers.
- _ea1k 3y agoThat's a fair point, though I think interest rates are putting a damper on the mentality at the moment. Then again, Ford offers aggressive buydowns to fix that. The market is weird.
- skyyler 3y agoDo you see what working class people drive? It isn’t new $65k vehicles. The working man’s truck around here (North Bay Area) are late 90s / early 2000s Toyotas and Nissans that can be had for under $10k. Not fancy trim level recent model American trucks.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- delecti 3y agoThe most premium model is not for farmers, it's for suburbanites who like to imagine all the projects they want to work on. Likewise, the top-line ICE F-150 isn't for farmers, or you'd be complaining about how the 2023 top-line ICE costs about $85k (according to ford.com) The existence of that overpriced ersatz luxury work vehicle doesn't stop farmers from buying more reasonably priced, less luxurious versions, and the "Platinum" F-150 Lightning won't stop farmers from getting the more reasonably priced version of that either. https://shop.ford.com/configure/f150/model/customize https://shop.ford.com/configure/f150/model/customize
- bryanlarsen 3y agoA lot of farmers drive new top-of-the-line F-150's. But they're used the same way suburbanites use them. They're not for work, they're for show. They're not used for anything that could possibly scratch the vehicle. But any farmer driving a new top-of-the-line F-150 also has a beat-up old work truck, which is the eventual fate of their "go to market" truck.
- crooked-v 3y agoThe disconnect you're missing here is that a max-spec F-150 is a luxury vehicle, not a working vehicle, and the Lightning is a sidegrade to that with other perks.
- josephd79 3y agoThey get 10 year loans….
- dboreham 3y agoI'm surrounded by ranchers mostly driving very expensive diesel pickup trucks. They're not going to buy electric for cultural reasons, but the price seems in the ball park of the vehicles they're already buying.
- LanceH 3y ago> They're not going to buy electric for cultural reasons I know there is a strong desire to hate on rednecks, but farmers/ranchers are extremely quick to pick up on reliably useful technology, and that would include EV trucks. They will sit back and wait for a generation of trucks to show them they are worthwhile.
- klyrs 3y agoSorry, but coal rolling is a widespread cultural phenomenon. Truck drivers deliberately and very publicly harass electric cars on the road. That doesn't mean they're "rednecks," that's your word, and talking about the prevalent anti-electric cultural trend is not "hate."
- floxy 3y ago>Truck drivers deliberately and very publicly harass electric cars on the road. I'd be interested to know where this is, and what it looks like. I haven't seen this, and while I don't live in rural area it is a big agricultural area and is fly-over country to most at HN. Maybe this is specific to certain brands of electric cars? Or maybe the 2018 and later Nissan Leafs aren't distinctive enough to immediately identify as electric?
- Shekelphile 3y agoI live in rural upstate NY and get coal rolled just for having a normal sedan. Anything perceived as inferior makes you a target for trumpy idiocy here.
- falcolas 3y ago
- exabrial 3y agoThat's because your farmer friends are still driving their 1952 FarmAll chain drive grain truck they've fixed over 1,000 times, which was designed to be repaired, rather than disposed of.
- jackmott42 3y agoSo don't get the Platinum model. I'm surrounded by oil rig workers and they all have $90k trucks
- DavidPeiffer 3y agoMaybe not a 92k platinum model, but a family member does farm bankruptcies. I doubt a 60-70k truck would look out of place in many farm communities. It's not uncommon to buy a nice new pickup every 2-3 years even if the old one is still working fine. Some people have an aversion to paying taxes, so they buy new equipment they don't need but could use. It reduces their taxable income, but minimizing taxes and maximizing net worth are not always aligned.
- elgenie 3y agoMental short-handing that says "Mercedes = luxury" and "Ford truck = working class" is entirely marketing. Whatever the marketing, all F-150s are what their price shows them to be: luxury vehicles. The median F150 does one-person commutes, groceries, and perhaps an occasional Lazy-Boy, never leaving pavement in its lifetime. Six of the eight varieties of ICE F-150 start at more than than that Mercedes E-Class. Actual working class folks would buy used trucks from 3-4 years ago whose leases are up, or perhaps the Ford Maverick (https://www.ford.com/trucks/maverick/2023/ https://www.ford.com/trucks/maverick/2023/), which sold so well Ford couldn't keep it in stock.
- elchief 3y ago"slashes" prices to only $10,000 more than when it was introduced...gee
- pc86 3y agoIsn't this like 10%? That much of a discount on a new vehicle certain constitutes "slashed" in my experience, especially lately.
- whoisjuan 3y agoKnee-jerk reaction to Cybertruck's imminent launch? https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/teslas-austin-based-gigafactory-unveils-first-cybertruck https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/teslas-austin-based-gigafac...
- MBCook 3y agoBetter input supply and lower costs. The Mach-E has similarly been going up and down in price based on (mostly) battery cost. I don’t think Ford is scared of the Cybertruck.
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/slow-selling-evs-are-auto-industrys-new-headache-2023-07-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/slow-s... https://electrek.co/2023/07/13/tesla-most-wanted-car-brand-us-study/ https://electrek.co/2023/07/13/tesla-most-wanted-car-brand-u... Tesla is a lifestyle cult. It’ll never convert legacy buyers (Ford and GM loyalists, broadly speaking) in material quantities. Brand demand is young folks that will buy and stay with Tesla.
- jackmott42 3y agoTesla can convert me at any second by firing Elon.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoThey sell almost 2 million vehicles a year. Global auto market is almost 80 million units/year. No need to worry about individual purchases like that.
- whoisjuan 3y agoI think Ford might be scared of the cult-like culture that has been created around Tesla and/or Elon Musk. I'm not sure it's entirely clear what the Cybertruck means for Tesla or the car industry, but it's obviously not a minor event in this landscape. Especially after so much speculation on whether or not this truck would ever become a production car.
- kcb 3y agoYes surely the dealers will reduce those prices and not just add on to their "market adjustment".
- lambdasquirrel 3y agoI don’t think Ford HQ is that stupid. Dealer inventories are up quite a bit. https://jalopnik.com/dealers-now-have-nearly-two-million-new-cars-sitting-on-1850647358 https://jalopnik.com/dealers-now-have-nearly-two-million-new...
- DrThunder 3y agoOh weird... I can't believe no one wants to pay MORE for a truck that does less and does it worse than it's ICE counterpart.
- soligern 3y agoIt does way, way more. Not only can it haul and drive for essentially free if you have solar panels, it can power your worksite and home for a couple of days for “free” as well. With cheap solar, it can be your daily driver and your farm vehicle.
- DrThunder 3y agoIt doesn't, and you're misrepresenting its hauling capabilities. It cannot haul anywhere close to the range of an ICE vehicle. It's too expensive for the average person as well. There's not a used market etc. My question is why do you feel the need to lie about it?
- arberx 3y agoEV wars heat up? That is a great way to describe falling demand.
- ortusdux 3y agoI hope they follow through and go to flat pricing on these. I loathe my local dealership.
- Animats 3y agoThat's the manufacturer's list price. Now there are discounts, too.[1] Big discounts and plenty of inventory on the Ford Mach-E, too. Real prices are below MSRP. There's unmet demand for the small hybrid Maverick pickup, which lists for around US$22K. The giant overpriced pickup thing may have peaked. There was no good reason that electric vehicles should cost more than comparable gas cars, and reality is setting in. [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1140181_2023-ford-f-150-lightning-gets-1-500-discount-in-some-regions https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1140181_2023-ford-f-150...
- dreamcompiler 3y agoSo now they're almost back to the prices when they were introduced before Ford started price-gouging. Nice.
- xnx 3y agoAre these imaginary prices like healthcare and college tuition? Is there a good source for what people are actually paying for these vehicles (which could be above or below list)?
- minerva23 3y agoEdmunds seems to track prices paid. The data isn't extremely available though as far as I'm aware. They expose it when pricing an individual vehicle as part of their sales referral program.
- xracy 3y agoWhy are they slashing prices at all? Who is their competition? They're worried the market is saturated with the 1 cybertruck that just rolled off the "production line" 4 years late?