7 ms·

I live car-free in NYC. A large appeal of NYC to me was not having to park. I don't ~mind~ driving, but I absolutely hated having to deal with finding parking w

I live car-free in NYC. A large appeal of NYC to me was not having to park. I don't ~mind~ driving, but I absolutely hated having to deal with finding parking when I lived in other cities. Parking generally makes me feel stressed (competition for free spots), or makes me pay (using something like SpotHero makes it easy to find a spot, but costs me). It's not even just major cities either- I'm frequently in a college town in Illinois and parking downtown is a nightmare, and can easily add 10 minutes to your trip time, AND it's paid. Visiting a city I'm not familiar with can add some stress too as you don't know the best parking, unlike cities you are familiar with. NYC has problems of it's own (trains are generally reliable, but tend to have delays right when you need them), but for $33 a week I can get to most major neighborhoods in 30 minutes, walking straight to my destination. Add in $40 for a couple cabs when I prioritize a quicker trip, and I have amazing access to my city for less than $100/week.

7speter 3y ago
> but for $33 a week I can get to most major neighborhoods in 30 minutes Ahh yes, only the most important, noteworthy neighborhoods that most likely aren’t transit deserts, right?
- AndyKluger 3y ago
  https://subwaysheds.com/ https://subwaysheds.com/
- elijaht 3y ago
  Some neighborhoods are harder than others, but I have found the subway + bus service + regional rail makes it possible to get ~anywhere~ in an hour from where I live. And those neighborhoods are the exception for me, at least, 99% of my trips really are under 30 minutes. Driving to those places would be 30+ minutes anyways, some of it really is just distance + gridlock
nradov 3y ago
I travel around the USA a fair amount. In the vast majority of cities, parking just isn't a problem. I drive my car where I want to go and park. Sometimes I have to pay. But the places where no parking is available are very rare. I am fully in favor of walkable neighborhoods and reducing the need to drive. But lack of parking is just not a stressor that most Americans worry about.
- antonyt 3y ago
  I'd need to see some numbers to believe that this is true for "most Americans." Certainly it's not a problem for most of America if we're talking about geographic area. But population is obviously not distributed uniformly.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  > I am fully in favor of walkable neighborhoods and reducing the need to drive. But lack of parking is just not a stressor that most Americans worry about. Tell that to my local Facebook & Nextdoor groups.
  - nradov 3y ago
    You aren't looking at a representative sample. Spend some time talking to people outside of dense cities. Parking doesn't even make their top 10 list of concerns. Even in regions like the SF Bay Area outside of San Francisco proper there is abundant parking near most homes, retail, and workplaces. Now I agree that devoting so much valuable real estate to parking is rather wasteful and we ought to eliminate some of those asphalt wastelands, but as a practical matter today it means most people don't get stressed about parking. If you tell them to get rid of their cars so that they don't have to worry about parking they're going to think you're crazy.
    - pavel_lishin 3y ago
      I do not currently live in a dense city; I'm in the burbs. I'm aware that this is a squeaky wheel situation, but I asked a question on a local group about a laundromat that's getting torn down - of the (last check) 38 comments on my post, approximately 5 have to do with my question, and the rest are people worrying about parking spaces if/when a small apartment building replaces it.
      - nradov 3y ago
        Some people always complain about adding more housing in their neighborhoods. My point is that on a daily basis most people don't worry about parking. They just drive where they want to go and then park their cars. Outside of a few limited urban areas, no one sees parking as stressful or as a reason to avoid using their own cars.
kibwen 3y ago
Sold my car years ago and moved to Boston. I'll never go back to live anywhere that requires me to own a car. I bike or walk everywhere, and what makes me hopeful is that biking infrastructure in Boston (and neighboring cities like Cambridge) has improved dramatically in the years since I've been here and just keeps getting better. Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022. Between my partner and I, we're saving $20,000 per year not owning a car (and that's assuming a generous expenditure on bicycle TCO). High rents mean nothing when considering how much you save on not needing to own a car.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Although I think everyone I know who lives in Boston/Cambridge owns a car because they either commute/visit to friends out to the suburbs or do regular weekend activities like hiking or canoeing out in the suburbs/mountains--which can also involve specialized transportation for car-camping etc. You can work around a lot of this but a lot of people don't want to if they can afford it. I don't live in the city but I'd definitely own a car if I did.
  - niam 3y ago
    You probably interact with the types of people who are more likely to spend time in the suburbs, by dint of living in a suburb. "Affording" a car in Boston is stressful as hell even beyond the cost, and I wouldn't recommend it. My friends who both live and work in the city don't own cars. I ditched my car when I moved into city limits, and ride an EUC, bike, or train to work. The suburbs would have nothing for me if I didn't have family there. But even there, a weekend pass for the commuter rail costs $10 and can take me as far as Rhode Island if I want.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I'm actually even further out than the conventional suburbs. But, yes, I mostly know people in the city who routinely do hiking and paddling activities that practically require owning vehicles and who routinely get together with friends well outside of city limits. I think most of the people I know who own a car in the city have a dedicated parking space. So, yeah, city people I know have made a deliberate (and expensive) decision to live in the city but maintain the flexibility to drive elsewhere without a lot of friction. People naturally gravitate to lower friction. If activities like getting outside of the city/transit coverage is expensive/a pain you mostly just don't do it.
ghaff 3y ago
One of the differences with NYC (and maybe specifically Manhattan--though it doesn't map perfectly) is that there's a cultural expectation that residents, even those with money, may not own cars. It can still be a hassle for weekend trips but it's still something of a difference in mindset even for people in other large cities where carless living, at least within the confines of the city, is fairly doable.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > One of the differences with NYC (and maybe specifically Manhattan--though it doesn't map perfectly) is that there's a cultural expectation that residents, even those with money, may not own cars NYC is the only city in the country where the majority of residents don't own cars. Manhattan has the lowest car ownership rates of all the boroughs, but car owners are still the minority city-wide. (Within NYC, car ownership also skews notably towards the wealthy).

7speter 3y ago

> but for $33 a week I can get to most major neighborhoods in 30 minutes Ahh yes, only the most important, noteworthy neighborhoods that most likely aren’t transit deserts, right?

AndyKluger 3y ago
https://subwaysheds.com/ https://subwaysheds.com/
elijaht 3y ago
Some neighborhoods are harder than others, but I have found the subway + bus service + regional rail makes it possible to get ~anywhere~ in an hour from where I live. And those neighborhoods are the exception for me, at least, 99% of my trips really are under 30 minutes. Driving to those places would be 30+ minutes anyways, some of it really is just distance + gridlock

nradov 3y ago

I travel around the USA a fair amount. In the vast majority of cities, parking just isn't a problem. I drive my car where I want to go and park. Sometimes I have to pay. But the places where no parking is available are very rare. I am fully in favor of walkable neighborhoods and reducing the need to drive. But lack of parking is just not a stressor that most Americans worry about.

antonyt 3y ago
I'd need to see some numbers to believe that this is true for "most Americans." Certainly it's not a problem for most of America if we're talking about geographic area. But population is obviously not distributed uniformly.
pavel_lishin 3y ago
> I am fully in favor of walkable neighborhoods and reducing the need to drive. But lack of parking is just not a stressor that most Americans worry about. Tell that to my local Facebook & Nextdoor groups.
- nradov 3y ago
  You aren't looking at a representative sample. Spend some time talking to people outside of dense cities. Parking doesn't even make their top 10 list of concerns. Even in regions like the SF Bay Area outside of San Francisco proper there is abundant parking near most homes, retail, and workplaces. Now I agree that devoting so much valuable real estate to parking is rather wasteful and we ought to eliminate some of those asphalt wastelands, but as a practical matter today it means most people don't get stressed about parking. If you tell them to get rid of their cars so that they don't have to worry about parking they're going to think you're crazy.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    I do not currently live in a dense city; I'm in the burbs. I'm aware that this is a squeaky wheel situation, but I asked a question on a local group about a laundromat that's getting torn down - of the (last check) 38 comments on my post, approximately 5 have to do with my question, and the rest are people worrying about parking spaces if/when a small apartment building replaces it.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Some people always complain about adding more housing in their neighborhoods. My point is that on a daily basis most people don't worry about parking. They just drive where they want to go and then park their cars. Outside of a few limited urban areas, no one sees parking as stressful or as a reason to avoid using their own cars.

kibwen 3y ago

Sold my car years ago and moved to Boston. I'll never go back to live anywhere that requires me to own a car. I bike or walk everywhere, and what makes me hopeful is that biking infrastructure in Boston (and neighboring cities like Cambridge) has improved dramatically in the years since I've been here and just keeps getting better. Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022. Between my partner and I, we're saving $20,000 per year not owning a car (and that's assuming a generous expenditure on bicycle TCO). High rents mean nothing when considering how much you save on not needing to own a car.

ghaff 3y ago
Although I think everyone I know who lives in Boston/Cambridge owns a car because they either commute/visit to friends out to the suburbs or do regular weekend activities like hiking or canoeing out in the suburbs/mountains--which can also involve specialized transportation for car-camping etc. You can work around a lot of this but a lot of people don't want to if they can afford it. I don't live in the city but I'd definitely own a car if I did.
- niam 3y ago
  You probably interact with the types of people who are more likely to spend time in the suburbs, by dint of living in a suburb. "Affording" a car in Boston is stressful as hell even beyond the cost, and I wouldn't recommend it. My friends who both live and work in the city don't own cars. I ditched my car when I moved into city limits, and ride an EUC, bike, or train to work. The suburbs would have nothing for me if I didn't have family there. But even there, a weekend pass for the commuter rail costs $10 and can take me as far as Rhode Island if I want.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I'm actually even further out than the conventional suburbs. But, yes, I mostly know people in the city who routinely do hiking and paddling activities that practically require owning vehicles and who routinely get together with friends well outside of city limits. I think most of the people I know who own a car in the city have a dedicated parking space. So, yeah, city people I know have made a deliberate (and expensive) decision to live in the city but maintain the flexibility to drive elsewhere without a lot of friction. People naturally gravitate to lower friction. If activities like getting outside of the city/transit coverage is expensive/a pain you mostly just don't do it.

ghaff 3y ago

One of the differences with NYC (and maybe specifically Manhattan--though it doesn't map perfectly) is that there's a cultural expectation that residents, even those with money, may not own cars. It can still be a hassle for weekend trips but it's still something of a difference in mindset even for people in other large cities where carless living, at least within the confines of the city, is fairly doable.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> One of the differences with NYC (and maybe specifically Manhattan--though it doesn't map perfectly) is that there's a cultural expectation that residents, even those with money, may not own cars NYC is the only city in the country where the majority of residents don't own cars. Manhattan has the lowest car ownership rates of all the boroughs, but car owners are still the minority city-wide. (Within NYC, car ownership also skews notably towards the wealthy).