9 ms·

Is that for safety or market protection reasons?

rootusrootus 3y ago
The only reason given is that they are not manufactured for US highways. Which may be a roundabout way of saying they aren't capable of going highway speeds.
- walrus01 3y ago
  This seems like a weird way of US states attempting to enforce their own local interpretation of federal laws and not laws that actually exist as state code. Anything that's over 25 years old is specifically exempt from federal FMVSS. If it's under 25 years old you can't legally import it anyways for use on US roads (with title, etc). People do import <25 year old kei type vehicles for use exclusively on private property on large ranches and such. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_S... google "usa 25 year import car rule". https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=USA+25+year+import+car+rule https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=USA+25+ye...
  - brigade 3y ago
    States are not required to register cars just because the federal government allows them to be imported or sold. They can add requirements consistent with their own laws, as California infamously does causing 49-state cars and parts. Whether categorically blocking kei car registrations is consistent with the laws of some of the states doing it is a question in some ongoing lawsuits, though.
    - walrus01 3y ago
      Different US states' very unique interpretation of laws on certain things is something I have seen that needs explanation to foreign visitors and people who immigrate, from countries where there is one consistent legal code and regulation system of various products at the national level... Marijuana regulations and firearms (and limitations of different types of firearms) are two obvious examples. Other things like per-state family leave laws for employees, employment law, landlord tenant law as well.
      - rootusrootus 3y ago
        > Different US states' very unique interpretation of laws on certain things is something I have seen that needs explanation Definitely! Especially here on HN. A lot of the questions & criticisms I see from people outside the US likely stem from ignorance about how the government of US is constructed. The states really are very powerful, even ~250 years into the experiment.
        hprotagonist 3y ago
        https://nonasuch.tumblr.com/post/616921709864468480/do-non-americans-realize-that-the-united-states-is https://nonasuch.tumblr.com/post/616921709864468480/do-non-a... “Do non-americans realize that the United States is literally just a bunch of countries in a trench coat that agreed to be semi-nice to each other in order to sneak into the Big Boy Club? Because let’s be honest that’s just what the USA is”
        arethuza 3y ago
        "a bunch of countries in a trench coat that agreed to be semi-nice to each other in order to sneak into the Big Boy Club" Well the US was hardly the first to take that approach! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdo... However, I would point that here in the UK I suspect most people are actually completely unaware of the fact that there are multiple legal and education systems in our "country of countries".
        hprotagonist 3y ago
        one wonders who we learned it from!
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        >The states really are very powerful, even ~250 years into the experiment. And in fact, the states hold absolute power over the federal government because the Constitution can be amended by a two-thirds majority of the states. Absolutely noone in the federal government, including Congress and the Supreme Court, can get in their way because the federal government derives their power from the states. The only entity that the states answer to is the people, from whom the states derive their powers.
  - maxerickson 3y ago
    Road legal is entirely a state thing. The federal law is all about what is legal to import or offer for sale. A different example would be emissions testing. Good ol' Michigan doesn't do it, so if you are moving to another state that does do it, it pays to think about whether your vehicle is going to pass.
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    It's bonkers how many laws there are against perfectly ordinary and normal things like importing cars in the Land of the "Free". In the UK you basically just need it to have some form of braking system and nothing likely to slice open or skewer pedestrians as you drive past, and be able to insure it.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      That's one reason why the UK is considered DIY vehicle heaven. And also why it is very much a pity that it dropped out of the EU because that gave a neat little loophole for a while.
      - Gordonjcp 3y ago
        There's a lot of reasons it's a pity it dropped out of the EU, but one upside is that it gives us room to rejoin as a proper member, using the Euro, in Schengen, etc. Or, maybe just Scotland and NI, and Wales and England can become independent.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        > There's a lot of reasons it's a pity it dropped out of the EU Yes, sorry I did not mean to give the impression that that was a major thing, just one more item that I've seen people use in creative ways. But obviously it's just a tiny footnote in a much, much larger tragedy. > but one upside is that it gives us room to rejoin as a proper member, using the Euro, in Schengen, etc. Can't wait. > Or, maybe just Scotland and NI, and Wales and England can become independent. England will put up a ton of resistance before allowing that to happen.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  They’re not really manufactured for Japanese highways either. Though Japanese highways go marginally slower, 60mph is pushing the poor kei to it’s limits. Lets just say I don’t enjoy sitting in a kei truck that’s attempting to do maximum speed.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    The whole point of the kei form factor is different parking rules in dense, sometimes cramped Japanese cities. Due to the small footprint, they are allowed to park in more places. These are urban vehicles, not intended for highways, except in a pinch.
    - numpad0 3y ago
      There’s no separate parking laws for Kei cars, just relaxed legal processes and taxes. You still can’t park overnight on streets.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      Close but no cigar. The real reason is because everything is small in Japan due to a lack of absolute space. Remember, the place is a god damn island nation with mountains for its interior. Roads are narrow, particularly in the countryside and especially if we're talking about roads crisscrossing between farms and rice paddies. Normal sized cars quite literally don't fit, much less normal sized trucks. Consequently, out in the towns and cities you see far more normal sized cars because the roads are wider.
      - nine_k 3y ago
        Who needs a cigar when one could read Wikipedia first? > In most rural areas they are also exempted from the requirement to certify that adequate parking is available for the vehicle Kei cars have a number of prescribed limitations (yes, because space is at a premium, but so is / was fuel, metal, etc), and even have special number plates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car Also, there are designated parking spots for them where other cars won't fit: > Some places in the parking lots are smaller than others and usually painted with the character “軽自動車” or just “軽”. These spaces are reserved for the small “kei” cars https://japantravelplanning.com/car-parking-in-japan/ https://japantravelplanning.com/car-parking-in-japan/
chiph 3y ago
Not an expert on Oregonian law, but my theory is that Oregon's motor vehicle law references the federal NHTSA regulations, and Kei vehicles laughably don't meet them (exterior lighting, crash performance, theft resistance, emissions, and so on). An owner might be able to use it as an off-road vehicle only (no title, no tag, with maybe only comprehensive insurance), but that's not the point of buying one for a lot of owners.
- causality0 3y ago
  That's such bullshit when motorcycles are allowed on the road.
  - koolba 3y ago
    Dark take with just enough data to make it a talking point: motorcycles allow the rider to fly off and die from a traumatic brain injury, while preserving their organs. If you’re crushed in a Kei car they probably won’t be able to salvage much. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/health/organ-donation-motorcycle-rallies/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/health/organ-donation-motorcy...
    - harambae 3y ago
      Typically only true if you're not wearing a helmet.
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    ...or when my local inspection station, and the cops, don't even blink at a Ford 350 with a huge-ass lift kit, mud tires that don't grip for shit and extend inches (or more) past the fenders which is insanely dangerous, a front bumper that has been replaced with a thick sheetmetal version, and the rear plate is covered by a tinted, a glossy plate cover that makes the plate virtually impossible to read, and the cherry on the pie: a "DPF delete" which means the guy is belching diesel particulate everywhere he goes.
    - 3y ago
bagels 3y ago
Those as well as emissions reasons.
KennyBlanken 3y ago
Neither. There's an association of state DMV/RMV heads, and they have apparently decided that we shouldn't have these. A lot of state RMVs are starting to refuse to register these vehicles, and that's why you often see them being sold for very cheap.

The only reason given is that they are not manufactured for US highways. Which may be a roundabout way of saying they aren't capable of going highway speeds.

walrus01 3y ago
This seems like a weird way of US states attempting to enforce their own local interpretation of federal laws and not laws that actually exist as state code. Anything that's over 25 years old is specifically exempt from federal FMVSS. If it's under 25 years old you can't legally import it anyways for use on US roads (with title, etc). People do import <25 year old kei type vehicles for use exclusively on private property on large ranches and such. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_S... google "usa 25 year import car rule". https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=USA+25+year+import+car+rule https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=USA+25+ye...
- brigade 3y ago
  States are not required to register cars just because the federal government allows them to be imported or sold. They can add requirements consistent with their own laws, as California infamously does causing 49-state cars and parts. Whether categorically blocking kei car registrations is consistent with the laws of some of the states doing it is a question in some ongoing lawsuits, though.
  - walrus01 3y ago
    Different US states' very unique interpretation of laws on certain things is something I have seen that needs explanation to foreign visitors and people who immigrate, from countries where there is one consistent legal code and regulation system of various products at the national level... Marijuana regulations and firearms (and limitations of different types of firearms) are two obvious examples. Other things like per-state family leave laws for employees, employment law, landlord tenant law as well.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      > Different US states' very unique interpretation of laws on certain things is something I have seen that needs explanation Definitely! Especially here on HN. A lot of the questions & criticisms I see from people outside the US likely stem from ignorance about how the government of US is constructed. The states really are very powerful, even ~250 years into the experiment.
      - hprotagonist 3y ago
        https://nonasuch.tumblr.com/post/616921709864468480/do-non-americans-realize-that-the-united-states-is https://nonasuch.tumblr.com/post/616921709864468480/do-non-a... “Do non-americans realize that the United States is literally just a bunch of countries in a trench coat that agreed to be semi-nice to each other in order to sneak into the Big Boy Club? Because let’s be honest that’s just what the USA is”
        arethuza 3y ago
        "a bunch of countries in a trench coat that agreed to be semi-nice to each other in order to sneak into the Big Boy Club" Well the US was hardly the first to take that approach! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdo... However, I would point that here in the UK I suspect most people are actually completely unaware of the fact that there are multiple legal and education systems in our "country of countries".
        hprotagonist 3y ago
        one wonders who we learned it from!
      - Dalewyn 3y ago
        >The states really are very powerful, even ~250 years into the experiment. And in fact, the states hold absolute power over the federal government because the Constitution can be amended by a two-thirds majority of the states. Absolutely noone in the federal government, including Congress and the Supreme Court, can get in their way because the federal government derives their power from the states. The only entity that the states answer to is the people, from whom the states derive their powers.
- maxerickson 3y ago
  Road legal is entirely a state thing. The federal law is all about what is legal to import or offer for sale. A different example would be emissions testing. Good ol' Michigan doesn't do it, so if you are moving to another state that does do it, it pays to think about whether your vehicle is going to pass.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  It's bonkers how many laws there are against perfectly ordinary and normal things like importing cars in the Land of the "Free". In the UK you basically just need it to have some form of braking system and nothing likely to slice open or skewer pedestrians as you drive past, and be able to insure it.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That's one reason why the UK is considered DIY vehicle heaven. And also why it is very much a pity that it dropped out of the EU because that gave a neat little loophole for a while.
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      There's a lot of reasons it's a pity it dropped out of the EU, but one upside is that it gives us room to rejoin as a proper member, using the Euro, in Schengen, etc. Or, maybe just Scotland and NI, and Wales and England can become independent.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        > There's a lot of reasons it's a pity it dropped out of the EU Yes, sorry I did not mean to give the impression that that was a major thing, just one more item that I've seen people use in creative ways. But obviously it's just a tiny footnote in a much, much larger tragedy. > but one upside is that it gives us room to rejoin as a proper member, using the Euro, in Schengen, etc. Can't wait. > Or, maybe just Scotland and NI, and Wales and England can become independent. England will put up a ton of resistance before allowing that to happen.
Aeolun 3y ago
They’re not really manufactured for Japanese highways either. Though Japanese highways go marginally slower, 60mph is pushing the poor kei to it’s limits. Lets just say I don’t enjoy sitting in a kei truck that’s attempting to do maximum speed.
- nine_k 3y ago
  The whole point of the kei form factor is different parking rules in dense, sometimes cramped Japanese cities. Due to the small footprint, they are allowed to park in more places. These are urban vehicles, not intended for highways, except in a pinch.
  - numpad0 3y ago
    There’s no separate parking laws for Kei cars, just relaxed legal processes and taxes. You still can’t park overnight on streets.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Close but no cigar. The real reason is because everything is small in Japan due to a lack of absolute space. Remember, the place is a god damn island nation with mountains for its interior. Roads are narrow, particularly in the countryside and especially if we're talking about roads crisscrossing between farms and rice paddies. Normal sized cars quite literally don't fit, much less normal sized trucks. Consequently, out in the towns and cities you see far more normal sized cars because the roads are wider.
    - nine_k 3y ago
      Who needs a cigar when one could read Wikipedia first? > In most rural areas they are also exempted from the requirement to certify that adequate parking is available for the vehicle Kei cars have a number of prescribed limitations (yes, because space is at a premium, but so is / was fuel, metal, etc), and even have special number plates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car Also, there are designated parking spots for them where other cars won't fit: > Some places in the parking lots are smaller than others and usually painted with the character “軽自動車” or just “軽”. These spaces are reserved for the small “kei” cars https://japantravelplanning.com/car-parking-in-japan/ https://japantravelplanning.com/car-parking-in-japan/

chiph 3y ago

Not an expert on Oregonian law, but my theory is that Oregon's motor vehicle law references the federal NHTSA regulations, and Kei vehicles laughably don't meet them (exterior lighting, crash performance, theft resistance, emissions, and so on). An owner might be able to use it as an off-road vehicle only (no title, no tag, with maybe only comprehensive insurance), but that's not the point of buying one for a lot of owners.

causality0 3y ago
That's such bullshit when motorcycles are allowed on the road.
- koolba 3y ago
  Dark take with just enough data to make it a talking point: motorcycles allow the rider to fly off and die from a traumatic brain injury, while preserving their organs. If you’re crushed in a Kei car they probably won’t be able to salvage much. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/health/organ-donation-motorcycle-rallies/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/health/organ-donation-motorcy...
  - harambae 3y ago
    Typically only true if you're not wearing a helmet.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  ...or when my local inspection station, and the cops, don't even blink at a Ford 350 with a huge-ass lift kit, mud tires that don't grip for shit and extend inches (or more) past the fenders which is insanely dangerous, a front bumper that has been replaced with a thick sheetmetal version, and the rear plate is covered by a tinted, a glossy plate cover that makes the plate virtually impossible to read, and the cherry on the pie: a "DPF delete" which means the guy is belching diesel particulate everywhere he goes.
  - 3y ago

bagels 3y ago

Those as well as emissions reasons.

KennyBlanken 3y ago

Neither. There's an association of state DMV/RMV heads, and they have apparently decided that we shouldn't have these. A lot of state RMVs are starting to refuse to register these vehicles, and that's why you often see them being sold for very cheap.