4 ms·

This writing is so clear and good. I can't tell you how many NYT articles I read where the paragraphs feel out of order, chopped up and there is no consistent f

This writing is so clear and good. I can't tell you how many NYT articles I read where the paragraphs feel out of order, chopped up and there is no consistent flow. This reads very enjoyably.

micromacrofoot 3y ago
writers rarely have complete control over what editors do to their pieces before the nyt publishes them, and in this case there are no middlemen muddling things up
SkyMarshal 3y ago
That kind of modern journalism is absurd. Originally the rule in journalism was, the first paragraph must contain who, when, what, where, then subsequent paragraphs fill in the details in either chronological or logical order. Now the first paragraph must contain an emotional human-interest style “hook” to rope in the reader, then bury the lede in some random spot in the remainder of the text, in an attempt to keep the reader searching for it, like a slot machine. As soon as I realize that’s how something is written, I take that as signal it lacks the quality to stand alone and I discard it and move on.
- chongli 3y ago
  Yeah. I can usually tell within the first couple of words if the article is worth reading or not. Anything that seems to start with a complete non-sequitur or some variant of “once upon a time” is an immediate back-button bounce for me!
  - simplicio 3y ago
    How can you start with a non-sequitur?
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      Non-sequitur to the headline?
- hengheng 3y ago
  Condensing inflated long-form articles back to their useful size would be a worthwhile AI application, just like searchable podcast transcriptions.
  - p1mrx 3y ago
    https://www.boringreport.org/app https://www.boringreport.org/app does that, at least until the IP lawyers figure out what to do with it.
- dylan604 3y ago
  > Now the first paragraph must contain an emotional human-interest style “hook” to rope in the reader So news sites have become a recipe site? Except, you’ve limited to a single paragraph vs 7/8 of the page
  - SkyMarshal 3y ago
    It's more that they're using Skinner Box variable rate reinforcement bs to rope readers in and keep them reading, which explains why the text feels so randomized and out-of-any-logical-order. https://www.nirandfar.com/want-to-hook-your-users-drive-them-crazy/ https://www.nirandfar.com/want-to-hook-your-users-drive-them...
- ProAm 3y ago
  How many news or journalism sites are you currently subscribed to?
  - SkyMarshal 3y ago
    None, why? Are paywalled articles written in the traditional way since they already have a revenue source and don’t need to addict people?
    - ProAm 3y ago
      So you dont pay for any of it and then complain this is what they have to do to get views and clicks. Chicken meet egg, egg meet chicken, pot meet kettle.
      - SkyMarshal 3y ago
        This whole thread we’re in was started by someone observing how well-written and clear the original article is, so I don’t think the only way to get clicks is to write in the way I’m complaining about.
      - _Algernon_ 3y ago
        If I start paying for it today, they wont magically start writing proper articles again. The news media has gotten themselves stuck in a bad Nash equilibrium. Guilting indiviudals into paying wont change that. Systemic change is required.
      - AdamN 3y ago
        I pay about $2k/yr for news sites and the variability is high even for paid sites. Check out the WSJ Editorial pages if you want to observe diminished writing ability.
      - TeMPOraL 3y ago
        > this is what they have to do They could always close the shop too. "We need to keep the revenue coming in these changing times" is not a justification for descending deeper and deeper into immoral and anti-social behavior. Not to mention, the way market economy works means that even if we'd all start paying for shitty pseudo-journalism today, the influx of money will not make them climb back out of the ethical/quality hole - it'll only validate getting worse as a growth model.
- hammock 3y ago
  NPR features are the same now, only on the radio
- khy 3y ago
  "John Smith is buttering his toast with a spoon, much to the bemusement of our waitress Jane at the All Day Diner on the outskirts of Duluth Minnesota..."
the-printer 3y ago
The fact that he publishes informative pieces at such a steady rate is remarkable as well. And the fact that he resisted to use the phrase "deep dive" in this particular one is indicative of a high level of discipline with his prose.

This writing is so clear and good. I can't tell you how many NYT articles I read where the paragraphs feel out of order, chopped up and there is no consistent flow. This reads very enjoyably.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

writers rarely have complete control over what editors do to their pieces before the nyt publishes them, and in this case there are no middlemen muddling things up

SkyMarshal 3y ago

That kind of modern journalism is absurd. Originally the rule in journalism was, the first paragraph must contain who, when, what, where, then subsequent paragraphs fill in the details in either chronological or logical order. Now the first paragraph must contain an emotional human-interest style “hook” to rope in the reader, then bury the lede in some random spot in the remainder of the text, in an attempt to keep the reader searching for it, like a slot machine. As soon as I realize that’s how something is written, I take that as signal it lacks the quality to stand alone and I discard it and move on.

chongli 3y ago
Yeah. I can usually tell within the first couple of words if the article is worth reading or not. Anything that seems to start with a complete non-sequitur or some variant of “once upon a time” is an immediate back-button bounce for me!
- simplicio 3y ago
  How can you start with a non-sequitur?
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    Non-sequitur to the headline?
hengheng 3y ago
Condensing inflated long-form articles back to their useful size would be a worthwhile AI application, just like searchable podcast transcriptions.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  https://www.boringreport.org/app https://www.boringreport.org/app does that, at least until the IP lawyers figure out what to do with it.
dylan604 3y ago
> Now the first paragraph must contain an emotional human-interest style “hook” to rope in the reader So news sites have become a recipe site? Except, you’ve limited to a single paragraph vs 7/8 of the page
- SkyMarshal 3y ago
  It's more that they're using Skinner Box variable rate reinforcement bs to rope readers in and keep them reading, which explains why the text feels so randomized and out-of-any-logical-order. https://www.nirandfar.com/want-to-hook-your-users-drive-them-crazy/ https://www.nirandfar.com/want-to-hook-your-users-drive-them...
ProAm 3y ago
How many news or journalism sites are you currently subscribed to?
- SkyMarshal 3y ago
  None, why? Are paywalled articles written in the traditional way since they already have a revenue source and don’t need to addict people?
  - ProAm 3y ago
    So you dont pay for any of it and then complain this is what they have to do to get views and clicks. Chicken meet egg, egg meet chicken, pot meet kettle.
    - SkyMarshal 3y ago
      This whole thread we’re in was started by someone observing how well-written and clear the original article is, so I don’t think the only way to get clicks is to write in the way I’m complaining about.
    - _Algernon_ 3y ago
      If I start paying for it today, they wont magically start writing proper articles again. The news media has gotten themselves stuck in a bad Nash equilibrium. Guilting indiviudals into paying wont change that. Systemic change is required.
    - AdamN 3y ago
      I pay about $2k/yr for news sites and the variability is high even for paid sites. Check out the WSJ Editorial pages if you want to observe diminished writing ability.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      > this is what they have to do They could always close the shop too. "We need to keep the revenue coming in these changing times" is not a justification for descending deeper and deeper into immoral and anti-social behavior. Not to mention, the way market economy works means that even if we'd all start paying for shitty pseudo-journalism today, the influx of money will not make them climb back out of the ethical/quality hole - it'll only validate getting worse as a growth model.
hammock 3y ago
NPR features are the same now, only on the radio
khy 3y ago
"John Smith is buttering his toast with a spoon, much to the bemusement of our waitress Jane at the All Day Diner on the outskirts of Duluth Minnesota..."

the-printer 3y ago

The fact that he publishes informative pieces at such a steady rate is remarkable as well. And the fact that he resisted to use the phrase "deep dive" in this particular one is indicative of a high level of discipline with his prose.