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I bike year round, from -25 to 25c. Schwalbe marathons tyres and their studded version in winter. I slip on light windbreaker pants on top of the regular, regu

I bike year round, from -25 to 25c. Schwalbe marathons tyres and their studded version in winter. I slip on light windbreaker pants on top of the regular, regular winter jacket and gloves, a thin hat and a scarf. What issues did you run into while trying?

epivosism 3y ago
A large fraction of humanity is young or old. Like, >50% of people are not really safe to ride a bike on their own, let alone at -25C. There are people who can do it, but as a solution it lacks generality.
- cycomanic 3y ago
  Are you serious? My mother is 72 and pretty much bikes everywhere. If you walk or bike around in many European cities you'll see people from 2-90 on bikes. Have a look a Videos from Finland where you see people of all ages biking around in sub - 10 C. It's also hilarious how - 25 C is being brought up as not suitable for people to bike around. Like how many people in Europe/Northern America actually encounter these temperature even once (let alone regularly that it should determine our traffic policies). These are the same arguments that ICE car proponents make against electric cars, "I might want to make a cross country road trip once every 5 years and so every car with a range of less than 800km on a single charge is not suitable".
  - ineedasername 3y ago
    The level of risk your mother is willing to take with a body that can’t bounce back from injuries very easily does not generalize to an obligation for others to accept the same level of personal risk.
    - kiba 3y ago
      Sedentary behavior is in itself risk factors for dying. If you break your hip bones, then your health is going to spiral downward because you can't walk. You need to load your body. A car takes load off of you.
      - ineedasername 3y ago
        Irrelevant. A person can stay fit without avoiding cars.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Irrelevant. A person can avoid cars without increasing their risk for injury.
        enriquec 3y ago
        as a cyclist, no, they can't.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        As a pedestrian who often uses public transit, yes they can.
        ineedasername 3y ago
        >As a pedestrian… This is not the topic. Cycling is the whole point of this little sub thread. Specifically with respect to the increased risks or lack of accessibility it offers for some sub populations. Besides, public transport is not an option for many people. I have a grocery store 3 miles away from me, and no public transport to get there, but again that wasn’t the topic.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Specifically with respect to the increased risks Increased risks of what? Getting hit by a car? Car travel is risky. For 2020 NHTSA put the number of medically attended injuries at roughly 400x the number of traffic deaths. For 2021 NSC puts that number at closer to 115x or 5.4 million injuries per 47,000 traffic related fatalities. Harvard puts the number of deaths due to "a result of exposure to ozone and fine particulate matter from vehicle emissions in 2016" at around 7,000 on the East Coast alone. Meanwhile with bicycles the NSC puts the annual deaths at around 1,300 with about 800 of those (or nearly two thirds) as a result of "motor-vehicle traffic crashes". Bicycles aren't riskier, society has just normalized automobile hazards. The answer to "bikes are dangerous because you could get hit by a car" isn't "just use a car".
  - epivosism 3y ago
    Yes, I am. What percent of people have dementia or alzheimer's - it's at least 5-10% right? What about Parkinson's? What about cancer? What percent are not able to manage their own lives and need constant oversight (psychological, etc.) What percent are <10 years old? these are huge chunks of humanity.
  - epivosism 3y ago
    I lived in Beijing for 10 years, where it regularly gets to -10 or -20C for a few months, and I did commute by bike through those winters, and it is extremely taxing and hard. I don't think you'll succeed in convincing more than say 20% of the population to do that in reality. If you think you have the power to convince more, please go for it!
    - waveBidder 3y ago
      20% is actually the trip fraction by bike that places like Amsterdam have, so that's actually what success would look like. it's one option many.
- xrikcus 3y ago
  The problem with that argument is that in places that are setup for it, it clearly works because people do it. So we have to ask whether there is something unusual about the people in those places, or the infrastructure. It apparently isn't something wrong with being young or old, within obvious limits.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  My grandma at 90 still rides a bike. Not in -25 degrees I’ll grant you, but the range is larger than you think.

epivosism 3y ago

A large fraction of humanity is young or old. Like, >50% of people are not really safe to ride a bike on their own, let alone at -25C. There are people who can do it, but as a solution it lacks generality.

cycomanic 3y ago
Are you serious? My mother is 72 and pretty much bikes everywhere. If you walk or bike around in many European cities you'll see people from 2-90 on bikes. Have a look a Videos from Finland where you see people of all ages biking around in sub - 10 C. It's also hilarious how - 25 C is being brought up as not suitable for people to bike around. Like how many people in Europe/Northern America actually encounter these temperature even once (let alone regularly that it should determine our traffic policies). These are the same arguments that ICE car proponents make against electric cars, "I might want to make a cross country road trip once every 5 years and so every car with a range of less than 800km on a single charge is not suitable".
- ineedasername 3y ago
  The level of risk your mother is willing to take with a body that can’t bounce back from injuries very easily does not generalize to an obligation for others to accept the same level of personal risk.
  - kiba 3y ago
    Sedentary behavior is in itself risk factors for dying. If you break your hip bones, then your health is going to spiral downward because you can't walk. You need to load your body. A car takes load off of you.
    - ineedasername 3y ago
      Irrelevant. A person can stay fit without avoiding cars.
      - inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Irrelevant. A person can avoid cars without increasing their risk for injury.
        enriquec 3y ago
        as a cyclist, no, they can't.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        As a pedestrian who often uses public transit, yes they can.
        ineedasername 3y ago
        >As a pedestrian… This is not the topic. Cycling is the whole point of this little sub thread. Specifically with respect to the increased risks or lack of accessibility it offers for some sub populations. Besides, public transport is not an option for many people. I have a grocery store 3 miles away from me, and no public transport to get there, but again that wasn’t the topic.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        Specifically with respect to the increased risks Increased risks of what? Getting hit by a car? Car travel is risky. For 2020 NHTSA put the number of medically attended injuries at roughly 400x the number of traffic deaths. For 2021 NSC puts that number at closer to 115x or 5.4 million injuries per 47,000 traffic related fatalities. Harvard puts the number of deaths due to "a result of exposure to ozone and fine particulate matter from vehicle emissions in 2016" at around 7,000 on the East Coast alone. Meanwhile with bicycles the NSC puts the annual deaths at around 1,300 with about 800 of those (or nearly two thirds) as a result of "motor-vehicle traffic crashes". Bicycles aren't riskier, society has just normalized automobile hazards. The answer to "bikes are dangerous because you could get hit by a car" isn't "just use a car".
- epivosism 3y ago
  Yes, I am. What percent of people have dementia or alzheimer's - it's at least 5-10% right? What about Parkinson's? What about cancer? What percent are not able to manage their own lives and need constant oversight (psychological, etc.) What percent are <10 years old? these are huge chunks of humanity.
- epivosism 3y ago
  I lived in Beijing for 10 years, where it regularly gets to -10 or -20C for a few months, and I did commute by bike through those winters, and it is extremely taxing and hard. I don't think you'll succeed in convincing more than say 20% of the population to do that in reality. If you think you have the power to convince more, please go for it!
  - waveBidder 3y ago
    20% is actually the trip fraction by bike that places like Amsterdam have, so that's actually what success would look like. it's one option many.
xrikcus 3y ago
The problem with that argument is that in places that are setup for it, it clearly works because people do it. So we have to ask whether there is something unusual about the people in those places, or the infrastructure. It apparently isn't something wrong with being young or old, within obvious limits.
Aeolun 3y ago
My grandma at 90 still rides a bike. Not in -25 degrees I’ll grant you, but the range is larger than you think.