4 ms·

I've participated and watched critical mass any number of times. I've never seen cyclists target cars randomly. The only time you will be surrounded in a miniv

I've participated and watched critical mass any number of times. I've never seen cyclists target cars randomly. The only time you will be surrounded in a minivan is if you try to drive through the cyclists, or otherwise act aggressively or unsafely. Critical mass is a protest movement. If you drive your vehicle into the middle of a protest against vehicles in a way that puts people in danger, don't be surprised when people react defensively. > Drivers don't know what to do because if they push too hard they'll knock over and injure a cyclist. They should do nothing. You cannot knock over a cyclist in a stationary car.

dmix 3y ago
The two critical mass's I participated in blocking traffic was limited to everyone passing through an intersection and then continuing on. Annoying for drivers no doubt but never as egregious as locking someone in specifically for an extended amount of time. The riders tend to move pretty quickly so it was at most a few minutes and never swarming vehicles to a standstill.
- kelnos 3y ago
  "I did a thing twice and never saw bad behavior X" is not evidence that X never happens. It's not even evidence that it's uncommon.
  - dmix 3y ago
    Didn’t say it was
dekhn 3y ago
The situtations I'm describing (covered in the press at the time) were not defensive- they were actively offensive. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflicts_involving_Critical_Mass#San_Francisco,_California,_US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflicts_involving_Critical_M... Swarming a car and preventing it from moving- sure, the safest thing for the car to do is stop driving, but... I don't think that's really a good defense of confrontational bikers.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  You should read through the link you just posted. Most of the incidents involving cars were instigated by the drivers of cars. I couldn't find an instance where a car wasn't trying to ride through the cyclists, or the driver hadn't picked a fight verbally. Can you highlight an incident where cyclists antagonized an otherwise passive observer in a car?
  - dekhn 3y ago
    Of course I read the link. I also read all the articles about this back when it was happening. The mom from Redwood City - no actual evidence she hit anybody, and the response was excessive. And the case where the guy used his U-lock to break a window. He was found guilty (not the driver). Confrontations are fine. Those examples are people who were actively being offensive to cars.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      > a mother from Redwood City, California, traveling with her two young daughters in the vehicle, tried to drive through the mass of riders. A witness claimed to have observed the driver strike a cyclist and flee before cyclists chased and surrounded her vehicle.[68][69] The driver denied striking a cyclist Like I said: the incidents are largely instigated by drivers. It is unclear if she hit someone, but it IS clear that she drove into a mass of cyclists. Again, don’t drive your vehicle into an anti vehicle protest, or any protest for that matter. It sounds like if she had just done nothing, nothing would have happened. I’m not saying the cyclists are in the right. I am saying that if you drive a multi ton vehicle into a mass of cyclists protesting the dominance of multi ton vehicles it is an actual and perceived threat to their safety. Even if the driver doesn’t think it is. You shouldn’t be surprised when people respond.
      - fufirjr 3y ago
        "It's a peaceful protest as long as you don't engage with it". This is you. What actual reason is there for society to find this kind of attitude acceptable or compelling?

dmix 3y ago

The two critical mass's I participated in blocking traffic was limited to everyone passing through an intersection and then continuing on. Annoying for drivers no doubt but never as egregious as locking someone in specifically for an extended amount of time. The riders tend to move pretty quickly so it was at most a few minutes and never swarming vehicles to a standstill.

kelnos 3y ago
"I did a thing twice and never saw bad behavior X" is not evidence that X never happens. It's not even evidence that it's uncommon.
- dmix 3y ago
  Didn’t say it was

dekhn 3y ago

The situtations I'm describing (covered in the press at the time) were not defensive- they were actively offensive. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflicts_involving_Critical_Mass#San_Francisco,_California,_US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflicts_involving_Critical_M... Swarming a car and preventing it from moving- sure, the safest thing for the car to do is stop driving, but... I don't think that's really a good defense of confrontational bikers.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dghlsakjg 3y ago
You should read through the link you just posted. Most of the incidents involving cars were instigated by the drivers of cars. I couldn't find an instance where a car wasn't trying to ride through the cyclists, or the driver hadn't picked a fight verbally. Can you highlight an incident where cyclists antagonized an otherwise passive observer in a car?
- dekhn 3y ago
  Of course I read the link. I also read all the articles about this back when it was happening. The mom from Redwood City - no actual evidence she hit anybody, and the response was excessive. And the case where the guy used his U-lock to break a window. He was found guilty (not the driver). Confrontations are fine. Those examples are people who were actively being offensive to cars.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    > a mother from Redwood City, California, traveling with her two young daughters in the vehicle, tried to drive through the mass of riders. A witness claimed to have observed the driver strike a cyclist and flee before cyclists chased and surrounded her vehicle.[68][69] The driver denied striking a cyclist Like I said: the incidents are largely instigated by drivers. It is unclear if she hit someone, but it IS clear that she drove into a mass of cyclists. Again, don’t drive your vehicle into an anti vehicle protest, or any protest for that matter. It sounds like if she had just done nothing, nothing would have happened. I’m not saying the cyclists are in the right. I am saying that if you drive a multi ton vehicle into a mass of cyclists protesting the dominance of multi ton vehicles it is an actual and perceived threat to their safety. Even if the driver doesn’t think it is. You shouldn’t be surprised when people respond.
    - fufirjr 3y ago
      "It's a peaceful protest as long as you don't engage with it". This is you. What actual reason is there for society to find this kind of attitude acceptable or compelling?