5 ms·

Why they're smearing Lina Khan

92 points by vo2maxer 3y ago

cratermoon 3y ago
Amazon's Antitrust Paradox is definitely worth a read. <https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-paradox https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-parado...>
dev_daftly 3y ago
Politics has broken him
- Proven 3y ago
  [dead]
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
A confusing mix of realistic hope that things might get better with constant reminders of the endemic corruption that is currently status quo.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
marai2 3y ago
The conclusion of this piece says: We shouldn't have to tolerate this sleaze. And if we back Khan and her team, they'll protect us from these scams. Don't let them convince you to give up hope. This is the start of the fight, not the end. How do we back Khan and her team?
- impissedoff1 3y ago
  $$$ just in time for elections.. that's all it is
shihab 3y ago
While ideologically I agree with this sentiment, is there any good neutral take on this issue? One specific criticism I heard against Lina Khan is that while her heart might be in the right place, her lack of legal expertise is in big part to blame for the failures in court. Her approach to litigation; the legal theories, precedence etc. she built her case upon- well apparently she could do better.
PretzelPirate 3y ago
>...it would be unfair to put the merger on hold in order to have a full investigation into its competition implications because Microsoft and Activision had set a deadline of July 18... On this part, I disagree with the author's take. It's not just that there is a deadline, but that the FTC took a very long time to take any action on this deal and set their own deadlines to land after the known merger deadline. The FTC didn't act professionaly or with the right level of urgency and is seemingly trying to run out the clock on the deal.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  I sortof see where you're coming from, but if MS and Activision want to do this deal, they can just extend the time period, right? Ultimately an agreement between two private companies is not grounds for the government to cave. I actually thought this deal was ok, but the linked Matt Stroller piece has convinced me otherwise.
  - PretzelPirate 3y ago
    > I sortof see where you're coming from, but if MS and Activision want to do this deal, they can just extend the time period, right? Extending the deal is quite a big effort, especially when the FTC waited to take action so close to the deadline. It's pretty obvious to me that the timing of this was intentional on the FTC's part, but I could be wrong. I know I would have started conversations and legal action last year if I ran the FTC.
- MikusR 3y ago
  The Judge had to remind FTC that they don't work for Sony.
ljm 3y ago
As a non-American reader this article really puts the sickness of modern politics on display. The public discourse is fundamentally unwell.
evo_9 3y ago
Smearing is the new mainstream way of silencing open discussions. You can always tell something is up when the use of certain words / phrases are used to discredit the other person, always without supporting data. This is a form of censorship and it's growing more frequent. History has shown us that the ones doing the censoring are always the bad guys.
- rufus_foreman 3y ago
  >> You can always tell something is up when the use of certain words / phrases are used to discredit the other person, always without supporting data You mean language like "The Republican project is a matter of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas by doing a lot of culture war bullshit, cruelly abusing disfavored sexual and racial minorities. This wins support from low-information voters who'll vote against their class interests"?
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    I mean it's Cory Doctorow, he always says stuff like this. The linked Matt Stoller piece is much better on the details and in terms of arguments.
  - camdenlock 3y ago
    Apparently, to a socialist, a person can’t merely have contrary convictions; they must be stupid and deluded.
tl 3y ago
Doctorow has been lionizing Khan since her appointment. She and the FTC were dormant for almost the past two full years and came out swinging relativly recently. It's hard to tell if the slow speed of action is necessary or if we should have seen more as early as 2021. It feels late, disorganized and the work of someone with a political axe to grind.
- datavirtue 3y ago
  Slow speed? You could take the chair of that org and act faster?
DannyBee 3y ago
People are smearing Lina Khan because she is radically different, yes. People are also smearing Lina Khan because she keeps failing in court in very bad, obvious ways. She is also consistently ignoring the advice of the very seasoned lawyers in her own organization, who are not in political positions (federal agencies have both career employees and political ones). Her organization has started to lose faith with her, and even scores in things like "honesty and integrity" dropped by 50% (from 84 points to <40 points), with comments pointing out they feel like they are being forced to pursue cases with frivolous arguments. See FEVS[1]. None of these are good things. Cory wants her to be successful because she's a true believer, and she is a true believer in things he supports. But the true believers are rarely (maybe never) successful when they have zero pragmatism. So far, she has zero pragmatism. She is consistently losing in court (Meta/Within, Lumina/Grail, Activision/MS, Altria/Juul, etc). If Lina continues on the path she is on, she will be totally unsuccessful. She will change nothing, and will in fact, set things back and make people unwilling to try it again. The Activision case is a great example - the FTC's arguments are just silly. I think this merger is a bad thing, but the tact the FTC is taking stands no chance of winning. She will move precisely nothing forward in the world at this rate - it will only get harder - losses make it more likely you keep losing, people scrutinize arguments harder, etc. The kind of change she wants and Cory wants doesn't happen by throwing abstract policy positions at the wall (in the form of court cases), even if the positions are ones I mostly agree with. It happens by moving your legal position from where it is, in reasonable, logical steps, to where you want it to be, and convincing courts along the way to take those steps with you. That may suck in a lot of ways - especially when you think you are very right and everything sucks (and you might be!). But bringing people along on the journey is necessary for courts too, the same way it is for any other part of society. The righteousness of your cause or position rarely matters to the speed at which you can do successfully something about it . [1] These are not employees who love or hate any particular company or industry, and have maintained high scores despite plenty of changes in administrations over the decades.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  Why do you think the Activision merger is bad? And how could the FTC change their case to win?
yazzku 3y ago
"This wins support from low-information voters" Lol, is that the term we use now to call people stupid? I guess "low-education" isn't acceptable politically in a country where much of the education is segregated and privatised. "But while tech leaders are 100% committed to the project of permanent oligarchic takeover of every sphere of American life, they are less full-throated in their support for hateful, cruel discrimination against disfavored minorities (in this regard, tech leaders resemble the corporate wing of the Democrats, which is where we get the "Silicon Valley is a Democratic Party stronghold" narrative)." Silicon Valley in a nutshell indeed. Cory has a sharp tongue.
Georgelemental 3y ago
> The Republican project is a matter of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas by doing a lot of culture war bullshit, cruelly abusing disfavored sexual and racial minorities. This wins support from low-information voters who'll vote against their class interests and support more monopolies, more tax cuts for the rich, and more cuts to the services they rely on. As a Republican who admires much of what Khan has been doing, I must point out: insulting people who agree with you and want to help you, is a bad strategy. This is not how you win friends and influence people, progressives!
- latency-guy2 3y ago
  That's really a mistake - don't assume progressives are here to make friends OR influence people, sometimes they're just plain old trolls who have no real plan for society outside of "winning". Ask them what happens day 1 after their revolution, it's always a hand wringing and a half to say the least. Anyway, I do look forward to Khan's dismissal. Government was going to waste my money anyway, but if I have any faith in the system it'd be that Khan receives none of my money.
  - Georgelemental 3y ago
    Khan has done a lot of good things. Government loves wasting money, but so do monopolistic corporations who use M&As to avoid needing to compete and innovate. Let them fight, its infinitely preferable to letting them team up.
    - latency-guy2 3y ago
      That'd be a fine wish, if they hadn't already teamed up. Microsoft is responsible for PRISM for godsake, they are the most compliant corp to regulations than pretty much all others.
WheelsAtLarge 3y ago
Lina Khan is fighting the system. She might be head of the FTC but that means little when the system is the reason we have the mega corps we have. Unless she can change minds she will not be able to change the system. Her best bet is to make a dent on the problem before the new administration comes in and then go back to academia and change minds there so that in 20 or so years when the current crop of students become judges they will change the way the system works.
- ece 3y ago
  I think academia and government have been focused on labor more than this[1], but the wildcard here is consumers who like things just the way they are, and judges still willing to go along. [1] https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventId=110152 https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?Event...
AraceliHarker 3y ago
Xbox is currently far behind PlayStation in market share, and PlayStation has been using its market dominance to negotiate exclusive deals with publishers, which has been detrimental to gamers who do not own a PlayStation console. The article mentions that the FTC was previously seen as being too close to big business. However, the only other regulatory body that has opposed the acquisition of AB by Microsoft is the UK's CMA, which is led by a person with ties to Sony. In addition, the FTC's arguments in court seemed to be more focused on protecting Sony than on protecting consumers. The EU is generally very critical of market dominance by large companies, but it has approved the acquisition of AB. This suggests that not all regulatory bodies are puppets of big business. The FTC has been criticized for being too focused on preventing large acquisitions and not doing enough to protect consumers. As a result, the FTC has been seen as being on the side of Sony, which is the dominant player in the high-end gaming market.
- ece 3y ago
  > PlayStation has been using its market dominance to negotiate exclusive deals with publishers, which has been detrimental to gamers who do not own a PlayStation console. Then Microsoft or gamers should sue to stop exclusives and show they're being hurt.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

92 points by vo2maxer 3y ago

Amazon's Antitrust Paradox is definitely worth a read. <https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-paradox https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-parado...>

dev_daftly 3y ago

Politics has broken him

Proven 3y ago
[dead]

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

A confusing mix of realistic hope that things might get better with constant reminders of the endemic corruption that is currently status quo.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

marai2 3y ago

The conclusion of this piece says: We shouldn't have to tolerate this sleaze. And if we back Khan and her team, they'll protect us from these scams. Don't let them convince you to give up hope. This is the start of the fight, not the end. How do we back Khan and her team?

impissedoff1 3y ago
$$$ just in time for elections.. that's all it is

shihab 3y ago

While ideologically I agree with this sentiment, is there any good neutral take on this issue? One specific criticism I heard against Lina Khan is that while her heart might be in the right place, her lack of legal expertise is in big part to blame for the failures in court. Her approach to litigation; the legal theories, precedence etc. she built her case upon- well apparently she could do better.

PretzelPirate 3y ago

>...it would be unfair to put the merger on hold in order to have a full investigation into its competition implications because Microsoft and Activision had set a deadline of July 18... On this part, I disagree with the author's take. It's not just that there is a deadline, but that the FTC took a very long time to take any action on this deal and set their own deadlines to land after the known merger deadline. The FTC didn't act professionaly or with the right level of urgency and is seemingly trying to run out the clock on the deal.

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
I sortof see where you're coming from, but if MS and Activision want to do this deal, they can just extend the time period, right? Ultimately an agreement between two private companies is not grounds for the government to cave. I actually thought this deal was ok, but the linked Matt Stroller piece has convinced me otherwise.
- PretzelPirate 3y ago
  > I sortof see where you're coming from, but if MS and Activision want to do this deal, they can just extend the time period, right? Extending the deal is quite a big effort, especially when the FTC waited to take action so close to the deadline. It's pretty obvious to me that the timing of this was intentional on the FTC's part, but I could be wrong. I know I would have started conversations and legal action last year if I ran the FTC.
MikusR 3y ago
The Judge had to remind FTC that they don't work for Sony.

ljm 3y ago

As a non-American reader this article really puts the sickness of modern politics on display. The public discourse is fundamentally unwell.

evo_9 3y ago

Smearing is the new mainstream way of silencing open discussions. You can always tell something is up when the use of certain words / phrases are used to discredit the other person, always without supporting data. This is a form of censorship and it's growing more frequent. History has shown us that the ones doing the censoring are always the bad guys.

rufus_foreman 3y ago
>> You can always tell something is up when the use of certain words / phrases are used to discredit the other person, always without supporting data You mean language like "The Republican project is a matter of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas by doing a lot of culture war bullshit, cruelly abusing disfavored sexual and racial minorities. This wins support from low-information voters who'll vote against their class interests"?
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  I mean it's Cory Doctorow, he always says stuff like this. The linked Matt Stoller piece is much better on the details and in terms of arguments.
- camdenlock 3y ago
  Apparently, to a socialist, a person can’t merely have contrary convictions; they must be stupid and deluded.

tl 3y ago

Doctorow has been lionizing Khan since her appointment. She and the FTC were dormant for almost the past two full years and came out swinging relativly recently. It's hard to tell if the slow speed of action is necessary or if we should have seen more as early as 2021. It feels late, disorganized and the work of someone with a political axe to grind.

datavirtue 3y ago
Slow speed? You could take the chair of that org and act faster?

DannyBee 3y ago

People are smearing Lina Khan because she is radically different, yes. People are also smearing Lina Khan because she keeps failing in court in very bad, obvious ways. She is also consistently ignoring the advice of the very seasoned lawyers in her own organization, who are not in political positions (federal agencies have both career employees and political ones). Her organization has started to lose faith with her, and even scores in things like "honesty and integrity" dropped by 50% (from 84 points to <40 points), with comments pointing out they feel like they are being forced to pursue cases with frivolous arguments. See FEVS[1]. None of these are good things. Cory wants her to be successful because she's a true believer, and she is a true believer in things he supports. But the true believers are rarely (maybe never) successful when they have zero pragmatism. So far, she has zero pragmatism. She is consistently losing in court (Meta/Within, Lumina/Grail, Activision/MS, Altria/Juul, etc). If Lina continues on the path she is on, she will be totally unsuccessful. She will change nothing, and will in fact, set things back and make people unwilling to try it again. The Activision case is a great example - the FTC's arguments are just silly. I think this merger is a bad thing, but the tact the FTC is taking stands no chance of winning. She will move precisely nothing forward in the world at this rate - it will only get harder - losses make it more likely you keep losing, people scrutinize arguments harder, etc. The kind of change she wants and Cory wants doesn't happen by throwing abstract policy positions at the wall (in the form of court cases), even if the positions are ones I mostly agree with. It happens by moving your legal position from where it is, in reasonable, logical steps, to where you want it to be, and convincing courts along the way to take those steps with you. That may suck in a lot of ways - especially when you think you are very right and everything sucks (and you might be!). But bringing people along on the journey is necessary for courts too, the same way it is for any other part of society. The righteousness of your cause or position rarely matters to the speed at which you can do successfully something about it . [1] These are not employees who love or hate any particular company or industry, and have maintained high scores despite plenty of changes in administrations over the decades.

hotpotamus 3y ago
Why do you think the Activision merger is bad? And how could the FTC change their case to win?

yazzku 3y ago

"This wins support from low-information voters" Lol, is that the term we use now to call people stupid? I guess "low-education" isn't acceptable politically in a country where much of the education is segregated and privatised. "But while tech leaders are 100% committed to the project of permanent oligarchic takeover of every sphere of American life, they are less full-throated in their support for hateful, cruel discrimination against disfavored minorities (in this regard, tech leaders resemble the corporate wing of the Democrats, which is where we get the "Silicon Valley is a Democratic Party stronghold" narrative)." Silicon Valley in a nutshell indeed. Cory has a sharp tongue.

Georgelemental 3y ago

> The Republican project is a matter of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas by doing a lot of culture war bullshit, cruelly abusing disfavored sexual and racial minorities. This wins support from low-information voters who'll vote against their class interests and support more monopolies, more tax cuts for the rich, and more cuts to the services they rely on. As a Republican who admires much of what Khan has been doing, I must point out: insulting people who agree with you and want to help you, is a bad strategy. This is not how you win friends and influence people, progressives!

latency-guy2 3y ago
That's really a mistake - don't assume progressives are here to make friends OR influence people, sometimes they're just plain old trolls who have no real plan for society outside of "winning". Ask them what happens day 1 after their revolution, it's always a hand wringing and a half to say the least. Anyway, I do look forward to Khan's dismissal. Government was going to waste my money anyway, but if I have any faith in the system it'd be that Khan receives none of my money.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  Khan has done a lot of good things. Government loves wasting money, but so do monopolistic corporations who use M&As to avoid needing to compete and innovate. Let them fight, its infinitely preferable to letting them team up.
  - latency-guy2 3y ago
    That'd be a fine wish, if they hadn't already teamed up. Microsoft is responsible for PRISM for godsake, they are the most compliant corp to regulations than pretty much all others.

WheelsAtLarge 3y ago

Lina Khan is fighting the system. She might be head of the FTC but that means little when the system is the reason we have the mega corps we have. Unless she can change minds she will not be able to change the system. Her best bet is to make a dent on the problem before the new administration comes in and then go back to academia and change minds there so that in 20 or so years when the current crop of students become judges they will change the way the system works.

ece 3y ago
I think academia and government have been focused on labor more than this[1], but the wildcard here is consumers who like things just the way they are, and judges still willing to go along. [1] https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventId=110152 https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?Event...

AraceliHarker 3y ago

Xbox is currently far behind PlayStation in market share, and PlayStation has been using its market dominance to negotiate exclusive deals with publishers, which has been detrimental to gamers who do not own a PlayStation console. The article mentions that the FTC was previously seen as being too close to big business. However, the only other regulatory body that has opposed the acquisition of AB by Microsoft is the UK's CMA, which is led by a person with ties to Sony. In addition, the FTC's arguments in court seemed to be more focused on protecting Sony than on protecting consumers. The EU is generally very critical of market dominance by large companies, but it has approved the acquisition of AB. This suggests that not all regulatory bodies are puppets of big business. The FTC has been criticized for being too focused on preventing large acquisitions and not doing enough to protect consumers. As a result, the FTC has been seen as being on the side of Sony, which is the dominant player in the high-end gaming market.

ece 3y ago
> PlayStation has been using its market dominance to negotiate exclusive deals with publishers, which has been detrimental to gamers who do not own a PlayStation console. Then Microsoft or gamers should sue to stop exclusives and show they're being hurt.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]