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Avast Scandal: Why We Stopped Recommending Avast and AVG
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- downrightmike 3y agoIf you've used Avast or AVG in the past decade, they sold your click data for every thing you clicked on and every site you went to. I hadn't heard about this at all until today. Submitting for exposure.
- type0 3y agoThe trouble is that people don't care, I explained it to both AVG and Avast users, the response I got varied from disbelief to asking me where is my tinfoil-hat. Ignorance is bliss
- JohnFen 3y agoThat doesn't sound like they don't care as much as they don't believe you. Which echoes the responses I get when I bring up these issues. I think lots of people find the concept so outrageous that they think it couldn't possibly be true.
- hutzlibu 3y agoI think it is not wanting to believe.
- t0bia_s 3y agoMy friends family use Avast on all devices at home. It blocks ads and give parental control, also security from various viruses, phishing, malware... Data tracking is fine for them. But... They pay around 35$/month for this.
- caminante 3y agoTo me, the browser/email signature bloatware was more offensive than selling my privacy.
- HappyPanacea 3y agoWow I have used AVG for like 13 years and never even heard these allegations before although I'm plenty online. I saw the AVG email signature and disabled the web/email part of AVG. I should have realized that a company which does that will do other underhanded acts.
- jcranmer 3y agoI mean, it's standard practice for me to disable all the parts of the AV that are "let us infect^H^H^H^H^H^H protect your other programs" because, well, it's effectively infecting the other programs from their perspective.
- Grazester 3y agoI stopped using them and Avast about 15 years now. They started to get dodgy and Window defender was more than good enough.
- codetrotter 3y ago> they sold your click data for every thing you clicked on and every site you went to It’s like Batman said. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
- Eisenstein 3y agoOr you start as a villain and just play a hero until you get found out.
- xen2xen1 3y agoNo shit moment right there. The second I saw they had their own toolbar I was 100% done, as it was totally, mind numbingly obvious they'd gone to the dark side. Anyone surprised by this is daft.
- readyplayernull 3y agoAnd Windows 11 took their place, waiting for the report in another 10 years...
- goodbyesf 3y agoI stopped using avast years ago when I first encountered the phrase: 'if it is free, then you are the product'. Also, avast, avg, etc are just another source of vulnerabilities themselves. Everyone really should be taught in school to ask: 'how do they profit off of me?'.
- skjoldr 3y agoIn security space companies can profit from selling corporate products backed by a threat-detecting network of free personal users. The sooner they can see new malware, the sooner they can make and distribute its signature, the safer it is for their corporate clients, so everyone wins.
- musicale 3y agoIf this is legal we need better laws. If it is illegal then the laws need better enforcement.
- zokier 3y agoit is illegal and it is being enforced https://www.techradar.com/news/avast-hit-with-multimillion-euro-fine-for-gdpr-failure https://www.techradar.com/news/avast-hit-with-multimillion-e...
- Eisenstein 3y agoBeing enforced after it is too late to do anything about it. The people that did it made their money and the data is long ago sold.
- cortesoft 3y agoHow do you suggest it be enforced prior to it happening?
- Eisenstein 3y agoMake it so that if you get caught doing something like this, then there is no company to reform its image. Fine it 150% proportional to the value of all its assets, then judge every CEO and boardmember in charge during the events ineligible to work in that industry ever again. Then we will see if it another company finds that it is worth it to make a few million in profit selling customer data.
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoThe history of law counsels against draconian punishment. There is a sweet spot between lenience, where crime is not deterred, and sadism, where crime is worth expending any and all effort for all even tangentially involved to cover up. It’s tempting to give into Prohibitionist methods, so we see these proposals come up continuously. But proportionality has a purpose.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y agoFor at least the last decade, at least for consumers, any type of anti-virus such as Norton, Avast, AVG had more downside that upside. Avoiding running under an admin account and using Windows Defender was better than installing any third-party anti-virus solution.
- rileymat2 3y agoThat is not entirely true, for ransomware your permissions are enough for them to encrypt your files. Windows defender is getting there, but I am not sure it is quite there.
- nfriedly 3y agoI'm with the grandparent here, but want to chime in that backups are also important. If all my files got encrypted, I'd only be out a couple of days time.
- TillE 3y agoSmart ransomware will wait weeks or months before revealing itself. So you'll have been backing up a lot of encrypted documents, and your last clean backup may be quite old. It may be totally gone if you're rotating quickly. But I essentially agree that Windows Defender is about as good as it gets. It's not perfect protection, but neither is any other product.
- zokier 3y agoMS Defender is not any different from any other AV products and it definitely has its share of issues; one of the reasons to get some other AV is just to get rid of Defender.
- tredre3 3y agoMS Defender has issues but it never did any of the bad things third party AVs do. In fact it does none of the things this very article highlights. So yes, MS Defender is very different from any other AD products.
- lockhouse 3y agoJust a reminder, nothing is really free. I recommend if you find a product or service to be too cheap that you think through why that could possibly be.
- Zambyte 3y agoExcept Free Software ofc
- mistrial9 3y agothis is exactly not the meaning of "free software" In English this has become a detriment, this label. If you have no idea why people would spend tens of years executing excellent software for highly technical niches, then I am not sure what to tell you. It is ironic to the largest degrees, the nature and culture of these foul trustless anti-virus windoze mobsters, is the cause for an utterance of "that other software is free"
- Zambyte 3y agoNot all Free Software is free, but all free Free Software is really free. There are no "hidden fees" in free Free Software, like there are with freeware. That was my point. I don't really know what you mean by the rest of your comment.
- WalterBright 3y agoThe D programming language is really free. > why that could possibly be Because it's fun.
- lockhouse 3y agoTouché!
- Der_Einzige 3y agoThere's clamAV which is open source: https://www.clamav.net/ https://www.clamav.net/
- saagarjha 3y ago> Avast and AVG no longer pose a threat to user privacy, meaning both products are 100% safe to use. Since closing down its data-aggregating subsidary, Jumpshot, Avast has undergone significant changes to ensure user privacy isn’t compromised. The company has earned certifications from data privacy advisors like TrustArc and works closely with other privacy experts, so you can rely on Avast and AVG to responsibly manage your data. …is this meant to be sarcasm, or what?
- danparsonson 3y agoFool me twice...
- sysstemlord 3y agoIt says in the article that once Avast was exposed they moved the Spyware from the toolbar to the main program and claimed everything is ok now, so in this case it's fool me thrice...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dboreham 3y agoMessage from our lawyers.
- wildekek 3y agoThe real money was in hedge funds using this data to beat the market. People got filthy rich this way.
- esafak 3y agoWas this covered in the news?
- berkle4455 3y agoJoseph Cox at Vice covered it fairly extensively. Hedge funds are still doing it today, just with different data vendors.
- sremani 3y agoHaving an actual virus was less tax on the system than having Avast and AVG.
- Aurornis 3y ago> Avast and AVG no longer pose a threat to user privacy, meaning both products are 100% safe to use. Since closing down its data-aggregating subsidary, Jumpshot, Avast has undergone significant changes to ensure user privacy isn’t compromised. The company has earned certifications from data privacy advisors like TrustArc and works closely with other privacy experts, so you can rely on Avast and AVG to responsibly manage your data. This looks to me like the kind of language that gets included in an article after lawyers start threatening lawsuits. Something tells me the author didn’t really want to lead this article with a blurb about how the products are 100% safe to use.
- KennyBlanken 3y agoYeah. "The company has earned certifications from data privacy advisors like TrustArc" feels like a reference who emails back "I can confirm Bob worked for us from August of 2010 to July of 2012." Trustarc is about box-checking compliance. Also "works closely with other privacy experts"...like who?
- Eisenstein 3y agoLet me open up MS Paint and get a certificate printed out, then I will be a Privacy Expert too.
- 3np 3y agoI think that's supposed to be a quote from reader mail, to which the OP is a response.
- WhereIsTheTruth 3y agoTo me this sounds like they couldn't get juicy deals and a referral program like they do for all the other fishy AVs I mean.. take a look at their home page: https://www.safetydetectives.com/ https://www.safetydetectives.com/
- xela79 3y agobest windows AV/Malware and Defender is not on the list. How serious can you take such a site/resource.
- Eisenstein 3y agoI wish the past twenty years hadn't been a futile effort of me and many others trying to convince people that they should care about privacy and their personal data even if they were 'nobody' or 'not doing anything wrong' or 'anonymously collected' or even if they thought 'there is nothing we can do about it', all the while coming across as paranoid or up to no good. Meanwhile I was right but fat good that does because the time to have done something impactful would have been 20 or so years ago and with a critical mass effort. There has to be a term for humanity's tendency towards shrugging things off as unimportant until it becomes too late to do anything about it, and then getting really pissed off that nobody warned them enough.
- bruce343434 3y agoThe term "Cassandra Syndrome" or "Cassandra Complex" is used to describe situations where individuals or groups make valid warnings or predictions about future disasters or problems, but are ignored or not taken seriously until it's too late.
- imiric 3y agoIt's difficult to argue against "free". The originally open spirit of the internet has been corrupted by companies who offer their services for "free", while in actuality it's done in exchange for the gold mine that is user data. Even if this is clarified, it's buried in the fine legalese of the T&S. And even if people read it, most will choose to make this exchange because they're already used to things being "free" online, because of the value of the service, and because it's never clarified how much their data is actually worth. The reality is that user data is exchanged in perpetuity on the data broker market, and the value extracted from it far exceeds the value of the service itself. Even paid services will harvest user data just because the profits from selling it exceed what they can realistically charge customers. All companies using this model should be paying users to use their service instead. This is an insidious and downright evil business model, fueled primarily by advertising.
- dancemethis 3y ago> Avast and AVG no longer pose a threat to user privacy, meaning both products are 100% safe to use. They are still proprietary. They definitely do pose a threat.
- chris_wot 3y agoAVG and Norton merged last year. Funny how these guys out in a disclaimer up the top that AVG is perfectly fine now. Great way to completely discredit your website.
- timbit42 3y agoIt's now called Gen Digital.
- mynonameaccount 3y ago[dead]
- stevetron 3y agoI've used Avast. I tried AVX once before Avast aquired it, and found it rendered internet access unusable with no fixes found. I still use Avast, even though it is owned now by the evil Norton empire. Yes, I used to use Norton way back in the dark ages, and paid the required annual subscription fee, and I found one day when I tried to do some work that 75% of my cpu cycles were in-use by Norton anti virus. On that day, I went shopping for alternatives. My next one was not Avast, but something else...I forget....and it lasted until I found it chewing up all my cpu cycles, and that's when I went to Avast, ever mindful that I was dealing with a product from an ex-Soviet contry.
- bulhi 3y agoDude, I'm from that country and I'm slightly offended. I also happen to know one of the co-founders of Avast and the way I see it is the whole company of boy scouts got corrupted by the insatiable greed of private equity. A concept that the land of the free blessed us with.
- mardifoufs 3y agoI get your point but private equity is a squarely European concept lol.
- somsak2 3y agosource? does not seem like it based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_private_equity_and_venture_capital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_private_equity_and_...
- ngc248 3y agoKaspersky was the best out of all of em. Its been almost ten years since I ran an AV though.
- usr1106 3y agoRight, ex-soviet would not raise confidence. Neither would USA. Google Street View collecting WiFi data, Snowden, spying on their allies like chancellor Merkel's phone, electing a president who has character traits of a 3 year old, I guess the list could go on and on. By the way Avast was Czech. And Czechoslovakia is known for the Prague Spring. Even if that ended in defeat, they were never part of the Soviet Union.
- JohnTHaller 3y agoAvast also made money by tricking users into installing Google Chrome for years using dark patterns: https://imgur.com/gallery/WWZxj https://imgur.com/gallery/WWZxj
- tedajax 3y agoAntivirus software is universally a scam so not a surprise at all.
- impulser_ 3y agoDo you even need these anymore? Why are people still using 3rd party anti-virus software?
- RadiozRadioz 3y agoBecause they're not part of the HN bubble and genuinely do need an additional program to stop them downloading random infected crap from MediaFire banner ads. The amount of people who would open funnycat.jpg.exe is much larger than you think. No way are they reading Windows Defender popups with complicated words like "executable", they're gonna click okay and it's up to 3rd party virus protectors to stop that stuff with scary flashy warning popups.
- chx 3y ago> No way are they reading Windows Defender popups with complicated words like "executable", they're gonna click okay Indeed. https://i.imgur.com/M4RNUHl.png https://i.imgur.com/M4RNUHl.png from https://www.usenix.org/conference/enigma2016/conference-program/presentation/smith https://www.usenix.org/conference/enigma2016/conference-prog...
- tentacleuno 3y agoI use BitDefender, not because I'm an idiot as you implied, but simply because according to my research it's more efficient and catches more threats than Windows Defender.
- rightbyte 3y agoWhen Win 95 and 98 was a thing antivirus programs were broadly recommended to normal users. I guess the habit lingers?
- KnobbleMcKnees 3y agoIt is basically this. Windows has long since had an integrated firewall and system protection measures, including a file scanner. And back in the 95/98 days, browsers we're happy to let you execute virtually native code that could wreak all sorts of havoc (ActiveX, Flash, etc.) Nowadays anti viruses are kind of like big intimidating security signs. They make the owner feel a sense of comfort while offering a bare minimum of value in terms of real security.
- Dwedit 3y agoUsed a Pentium 4 machine one time, and it was completely unusable while the preinstalled Norton was running.
- hknmtt 3y agoi have not been using antivirus programs on any of my computers for at least 15 years. it's one of those things that sounds good but in reality is beyond useless.
- thevania 3y agothis is so funny, they recommend Norton everywhere Norton and Avast merged last year: https://blog.avast.com/avast-nortonlifelock-merge https://blog.avast.com/avast-nortonlifelock-merge
- meindnoch 3y agoLast time I used antivirus was on Windows XP when I was 12 years old.
- t0bia_s 3y agoSame here. I scan PC with Malwarebytes Antimalware once a year and thats it. If you are not a torrent collector or brainless email attachments clicker, you'll ve fine.
- denton-scratch 3y agoSo, it's been known for more than two years that Avast and AVG were stealing and selling personal information. What have safetydetectives been doing for all that time?
- joshstrange 3y agoToo busy rearranging affiliate links on their website to notice or care? This site appears to be utter trash. Pretty much like 90% of the mattress review websites that suspiciously rank mattresses based on the kickback, I mean affiliate bonus, each mattress company gives them. I rolled my eyes hard when they said something like “based on user feedback”, I’m sorry, is this not your entire point in existing? Monitoring the situation? Why are you having to rely on users telling you about this, repeatedly? Also what kind of user who actually cares about this kind of stuff is also reading/trusting/communicating with this site?
- denton-scratch 3y agohttps://www.safetydetectives.com/disclosure/ https://www.safetydetectives.com/disclosure/ "This list also takes into account user satisfaction post-purchase and our commercial agreements with service providers."
- anshumankmr 3y agoWhat about mcafee? I have that crap on my Windows PC.
- Eisenstein 3y agoThe words 'crap' and 'MacAfee' are much more related than you want to know...
- anshumankmr 3y agoI have deleted it. Mostly I just log in to Windows to use office or play games so I am not going to miss it.
- Eisenstein 3y agoIts a joke because John McAffee paid prostitutes to poop in his mouth (true story).
- anshumankmr 3y agoooof... I knew about the drugs and his paranoia, never about this. RIP to the really troubled man.
- tupolef 3y agoI've stopped using those tools probably around 2008, there where red flags everywhere: in the options, the ui behavior, and in many articles for many years. I will not read this because I don't understand how a serious person or entity could recommend them in this era.