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So a VC-funded company expected to produce unicorn returns is going to accomplish this when non-profits haven't? It doesn't seem logical but I hope someone can

So a VC-funded company expected to produce unicorn returns is going to accomplish this when non-profits haven't? It doesn't seem logical but I hope someone can pull it off! I would like to learn more about the background of the founders - what they've already done in any way related to this. Why does Polar have a chance?

giancarlostoro 3y ago
I mean, before LetsEncrypt, if someone pitched a non--profit that lets you have free SSL certificates for your website, would you have responded similarly? Probably...
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  If someone pitched a for profit LetsEncrypt I would response similarly!
- theamk 3y ago
  The key is "VC-funded company", LetsEncrypt was never one.
rgbrgb 3y ago
Luckily you do not need credentials to solve problems with software. Good luck to the founders, it’s a worthy problem.
- hobofan 3y ago
  > Luckily you do not need credentials to solve problems with software. No, but you should at least provide a perspective why you will succeed (where many others have tried and failed). The only thing I see different in their approach is trying to "empower maintainers to become entrepreneurs", in a market in which there is no actual demand (= willingness for companies to pay cash). And they try to do that with a offering that I think maintainers couldn't care less about: - GH Issues shows all the info you need to get an overview over your backlogs funding = there ain't any amounts of relevance - maintainers are usually quite aware of all the external dependent issues of the project, and if you really want to get an overview, a tracking issue is easy enough to create
  - thayne 3y ago
    > no actual demand (= willingness for companies to pay cash) My company would be a lot more willing to pay a one-time bounty to fix a bug that is impacting us or build a feature that would help us then to pay a continual donation or sponsorship for uncertain benefit.
    - hobofan 3y ago
      > My company would be a lot more willing to pay a one-time bounty to fix a bug And how often do you do that today, in practice? If the pain is big enough, then I'm sure you tried to reach out to maintainers directly and see if there is a way for them to do paid work.
      - birk 3y ago
        I think you're underestimating the amount of friction that requires and as a result how many don't bother. Let's remove the friction entirely and see what happens. Shared some more context re: this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755640
- cloverich 3y ago
  You don't, and this isn't directed at OP, but the industry is ripe with hubris. Having a track record of success is less about pedigree, and more about building off of prior learnings and experience to solve complex problems. And leveraging your network when relevant. Thinking that those things aren't an important asset is common and IMO a flaw.
mustache_kimono 3y ago
> So a VC-funded company expected to produce unicorn returns is going to accomplish this when non-profits haven't? Business accomplishes something non-profits haven't isn't exactly a stop the presses event?
- password4321 3y ago
  I clearly failed to sufficiently emphasize the VC unicorn part enough, my bad. Polar is a Stripe/Square for GitHub issues, expected to charge enough fees to pay for a portfolio of failed startups and still make their investors money.
  - bogwog 3y ago
    I wonder what enshitification will look like if this business survives? Higher fees, something to do with advertising, crypto/NFT bullshit, garden walling/API restrictions, etc... History has shown these types of things are 100% inevitable with these types of businesses if they manage to survive, so it's smart to think about them well in advance and have an exit strategy if you decide to depend on them.
    - birk 3y ago
      Answered another comment re: enshitification here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755232
  - mustache_kimono 3y ago
    I think this is a fair critique. I have my own -- "This is why this won't work..." take, and I must admit that it's a VC funded startup does make this seem less viable. It's only that I think exactly the same re: FOSS non-profits.
birk 3y ago
That would be me :-) My name is Birk Jernström (@birk on Twitter). Been coding since I was 10y. Co-founded an e-commerce platform called Tictail back in 2011 which was acquired by Shopify in 2018. Worked there for 3y as Director of Product on the Shop.app team. In hindsight building platforms that empowers creators (one form or another) is what I love to do. As a self-taught developer thanks to open source, I'm incredibly excited to now focus on OSS with that mindset. I'm biased of course, but I think the fact that we're VC-funded and for-profit is a good & important difference here. Donations & sponsorship are great when they happen. Problem is they rarely do. In order to drive meaningful (full-time work) capital to OSS initiatives, I believe it has to charge for add-on value and that such services and subscriptions are mutually beneficial. See mkdocs-material as a prime example. We're building a platform to make setting up, deploying and managing such services seamless for both maintainers and their customers. Completely up to the maintainers to craft their services & subscriptions using those features to fit their initiative & community. I think such a platform is missing today and our model aligns us with maintainers – we don't get paid until they do. So it's good that we're intentionally for-profit :-) Yes, it's going to be incredibly hard and the odds are stacked against us, but I believe this needs to exist. Maintainers deserve a platform where they are not limited to any given model, but free to experiment, try and optimize what works best for them and their communities.
- password4321 3y ago
  > it's going to be incredibly hard and the odds are stacked against us Thanks much for taking the time to share; I agree and wish you luck: Success to you & your company!
- hobofan 3y ago
  > See mkdocs-material as a prime example Then I hope you provide a better system for dealing with (or allowing the maintainers to deal with) taxes. Unless the maintainer of mkdocs-material somehow funnels the earnings through a US company, I'm almost certain that it's impossible to offer what they offer while being based in Germany without violation tax rules (as what they are offering is clearly a sale and not a donation, and Github doesn't issue any sales tax).

giancarlostoro 3y ago

I mean, before LetsEncrypt, if someone pitched a non--profit that lets you have free SSL certificates for your website, would you have responded similarly? Probably...

madeofpalk 3y ago
If someone pitched a for profit LetsEncrypt I would response similarly!
theamk 3y ago
The key is "VC-funded company", LetsEncrypt was never one.

rgbrgb 3y ago

Luckily you do not need credentials to solve problems with software. Good luck to the founders, it’s a worthy problem.

hobofan 3y ago
> Luckily you do not need credentials to solve problems with software. No, but you should at least provide a perspective why you will succeed (where many others have tried and failed). The only thing I see different in their approach is trying to "empower maintainers to become entrepreneurs", in a market in which there is no actual demand (= willingness for companies to pay cash). And they try to do that with a offering that I think maintainers couldn't care less about: - GH Issues shows all the info you need to get an overview over your backlogs funding = there ain't any amounts of relevance - maintainers are usually quite aware of all the external dependent issues of the project, and if you really want to get an overview, a tracking issue is easy enough to create
- thayne 3y ago
  > no actual demand (= willingness for companies to pay cash) My company would be a lot more willing to pay a one-time bounty to fix a bug that is impacting us or build a feature that would help us then to pay a continual donation or sponsorship for uncertain benefit.
  - hobofan 3y ago
    > My company would be a lot more willing to pay a one-time bounty to fix a bug And how often do you do that today, in practice? If the pain is big enough, then I'm sure you tried to reach out to maintainers directly and see if there is a way for them to do paid work.
    - birk 3y ago
      I think you're underestimating the amount of friction that requires and as a result how many don't bother. Let's remove the friction entirely and see what happens. Shared some more context re: this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755640
cloverich 3y ago
You don't, and this isn't directed at OP, but the industry is ripe with hubris. Having a track record of success is less about pedigree, and more about building off of prior learnings and experience to solve complex problems. And leveraging your network when relevant. Thinking that those things aren't an important asset is common and IMO a flaw.

mustache_kimono 3y ago

> So a VC-funded company expected to produce unicorn returns is going to accomplish this when non-profits haven't? Business accomplishes something non-profits haven't isn't exactly a stop the presses event?

password4321 3y ago
I clearly failed to sufficiently emphasize the VC unicorn part enough, my bad. Polar is a Stripe/Square for GitHub issues, expected to charge enough fees to pay for a portfolio of failed startups and still make their investors money.
- bogwog 3y ago
  I wonder what enshitification will look like if this business survives? Higher fees, something to do with advertising, crypto/NFT bullshit, garden walling/API restrictions, etc... History has shown these types of things are 100% inevitable with these types of businesses if they manage to survive, so it's smart to think about them well in advance and have an exit strategy if you decide to depend on them.
  - birk 3y ago
    Answered another comment re: enshitification here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36755232
- mustache_kimono 3y ago
  I think this is a fair critique. I have my own -- "This is why this won't work..." take, and I must admit that it's a VC funded startup does make this seem less viable. It's only that I think exactly the same re: FOSS non-profits.

birk 3y ago

That would be me :-) My name is Birk Jernström (@birk on Twitter). Been coding since I was 10y. Co-founded an e-commerce platform called Tictail back in 2011 which was acquired by Shopify in 2018. Worked there for 3y as Director of Product on the Shop.app team. In hindsight building platforms that empowers creators (one form or another) is what I love to do. As a self-taught developer thanks to open source, I'm incredibly excited to now focus on OSS with that mindset. I'm biased of course, but I think the fact that we're VC-funded and for-profit is a good & important difference here. Donations & sponsorship are great when they happen. Problem is they rarely do. In order to drive meaningful (full-time work) capital to OSS initiatives, I believe it has to charge for add-on value and that such services and subscriptions are mutually beneficial. See mkdocs-material as a prime example. We're building a platform to make setting up, deploying and managing such services seamless for both maintainers and their customers. Completely up to the maintainers to craft their services & subscriptions using those features to fit their initiative & community. I think such a platform is missing today and our model aligns us with maintainers – we don't get paid until they do. So it's good that we're intentionally for-profit :-) Yes, it's going to be incredibly hard and the odds are stacked against us, but I believe this needs to exist. Maintainers deserve a platform where they are not limited to any given model, but free to experiment, try and optimize what works best for them and their communities.

password4321 3y ago
> it's going to be incredibly hard and the odds are stacked against us Thanks much for taking the time to share; I agree and wish you luck: Success to you & your company!
hobofan 3y ago
> See mkdocs-material as a prime example Then I hope you provide a better system for dealing with (or allowing the maintainers to deal with) taxes. Unless the maintainer of mkdocs-material somehow funnels the earnings through a US company, I'm almost certain that it's impossible to offer what they offer while being based in Germany without violation tax rules (as what they are offering is clearly a sale and not a donation, and Github doesn't issue any sales tax).