5 ms·

Then they should have said that. But even then, you’re just pushing the cost onto the person maintaining the system. Cloudflare R2 => Now you have to bootstra

Then they should have said that. But even then, you’re just pushing the cost onto the person maintaining the system. Cloudflare R2 => Now you have to bootstrap and maintain your own high availability Minio cluster. On multiple servers in multiple data centers for redundancy, of course. Cloudflare Workers/Pages => Now you have to maintain your own compute runner (granted, could be as simple as a docker container but that still both requires work to set up and transition over as well as maintain over time) and load balancer (once again, just Nginx or Apache but that requires setup and maintenance) to execute and serve this content. Cloudflare Access => Now you have to maintain your own access control system like ory. Cloudflare Tunnels => If you’re only running one node, this isn’t needed, so congrats I guess. You’d still need to provide internal access if you have multiple nodes in a HA environment, though. AWS EC2 => Now you need to maintain your own VMs. Etc. This is a volunteer project. Having someone maintain all these things may not be even remotely practical. It’s all the rage to hate on cloud services in 2023 but they abstract away a lot of operational work and that’s not something to be blindly discounted.

TylerE 3y ago
For some values of "half to". It's an open source game... if the site goes down for 10 minutes every now and then, would anyone even notice?
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  The more niche something is, the more vocal the members. So, yes. People would probably notice. But also, the point was that a MacBook (or single server) can just replace the infrastructure defined in the article. That is clearly not the case if you’re suddenly losing uptime. That is a material deterioration, any way you put it. And even if you didn’t choose to go the HA route, you still need to set up and maintain the server and all the things running on it. And fix issues when they come up. Choosing to have downtime does not magically make any of what I said go away; it at most eases the burden slightly.
  - allarm 3y ago
    Nobody cares about 99.999% uptime of an open source game. Nobody needs a sub-second convergence time of 99.999% of existing companies' networks. A couple of minutes of downtime is non-issue. > Maintaining the server You make it sound like it's a problem. It is not.
    - mynameisvlad 3y ago
      Oh yes, a random person on HN says something is a non-issue so their word must be gospel. Definitely. I explained exactly what needs to be maintained and why that’s a lot of work. You are free to disagree, but just saying “trust me bro” is not a compelling argument. Have you ever maintained your own server? Or even tried? It’s not nearly as easy as you clearly think it is.
      - allarm 3y ago
        Oh, I remember you. This amount of hostility to the world is difficult not to notice. So at least you're not a rando here. Clearly a name to remember. > It’s not nearly as easy as you clearly think it is. Dunno, I'm 20+ years in the industry. It's not easy, though it's just a skill. You can hire a person who would do that for you. It's not necessary to make it look like a wizardry. It's just a skill. I offer counseling if you're struggling with the basics. For you personally it would be 200% extra though. I don't like unnecessary rude people.
        mynameisvlad 3y ago
        If you think hiring a person to manage this is cheaper than the setup they have, or even remotely reasonable for a volunteer project, then there’s nothing more to discuss. That is in no way shape or form grounded in reality.
        allarm 3y ago
        I think I know a bit more about this particular problem than a (senior) software developer. Infra management is my profession, which I've been doing for decades. The conversation might have been more interesting if you hadn't been so rude initially.
lelanthran 3y ago
It's an open source game run by volunteers, played by enthusiasts. HA is not necessary. Having 5m downtime once every 4 years while they switch between the primary and the backup droplet because something went wrong is okay for a game! The majority of folks running solutions that result in effectively 0% downtime are vastly overpaying for what they get.

TylerE 3y ago

For some values of "half to". It's an open source game... if the site goes down for 10 minutes every now and then, would anyone even notice?

mynameisvlad 3y ago
The more niche something is, the more vocal the members. So, yes. People would probably notice. But also, the point was that a MacBook (or single server) can just replace the infrastructure defined in the article. That is clearly not the case if you’re suddenly losing uptime. That is a material deterioration, any way you put it. And even if you didn’t choose to go the HA route, you still need to set up and maintain the server and all the things running on it. And fix issues when they come up. Choosing to have downtime does not magically make any of what I said go away; it at most eases the burden slightly.
- allarm 3y ago
  Nobody cares about 99.999% uptime of an open source game. Nobody needs a sub-second convergence time of 99.999% of existing companies' networks. A couple of minutes of downtime is non-issue. > Maintaining the server You make it sound like it's a problem. It is not.
  - mynameisvlad 3y ago
    Oh yes, a random person on HN says something is a non-issue so their word must be gospel. Definitely. I explained exactly what needs to be maintained and why that’s a lot of work. You are free to disagree, but just saying “trust me bro” is not a compelling argument. Have you ever maintained your own server? Or even tried? It’s not nearly as easy as you clearly think it is.
    - allarm 3y ago
      Oh, I remember you. This amount of hostility to the world is difficult not to notice. So at least you're not a rando here. Clearly a name to remember. > It’s not nearly as easy as you clearly think it is. Dunno, I'm 20+ years in the industry. It's not easy, though it's just a skill. You can hire a person who would do that for you. It's not necessary to make it look like a wizardry. It's just a skill. I offer counseling if you're struggling with the basics. For you personally it would be 200% extra though. I don't like unnecessary rude people.
      - mynameisvlad 3y ago
        If you think hiring a person to manage this is cheaper than the setup they have, or even remotely reasonable for a volunteer project, then there’s nothing more to discuss. That is in no way shape or form grounded in reality.
        allarm 3y ago
        I think I know a bit more about this particular problem than a (senior) software developer. Infra management is my profession, which I've been doing for decades. The conversation might have been more interesting if you hadn't been so rude initially.

lelanthran 3y ago

It's an open source game run by volunteers, played by enthusiasts. HA is not necessary. Having 5m downtime once every 4 years while they switch between the primary and the backup droplet because something went wrong is okay for a game! The majority of folks running solutions that result in effectively 0% downtime are vastly overpaying for what they get.